EW 074 – How To Start, Scale and Sell A Business For Everything It’s Worth – Winning with Kari Lotzien, Owner of Anchored Leadership

Gordon Sheppard (00:00.882)
Kari, welcome to the show.

Kari Lotzien (00:03.394)
Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.

Gordon Sheppard (00:05.564)
Well, it's just, you we are so lucky to have you here, having spent a bit of time with you and having gotten a referral to you from someone that I trust is really an important part of starting out to get a chance to meet you and then spending a bit of time with you to learn about the integrity and depth of the work that you're doing to help all kinds of leaders in such a wide variety of situations and layer on top of that a multi-decade business ownership story in there too, where you've earned it.

You know, mean, you're talking from lived experience when you're walking in the room to do the work that you do now. I mean, the impacts are just far and wide. So thank you so much for spending a little bit of time here with us. But you know, there's a lot of people that haven't met you just yet. So if you had to describe yourself or introduce yourself, what would you say?

Kari Lotzien (00:53.018)
well, first off, I'm so grateful for the introduction. And I think that's one of the most impactful things in business is the great people that we get to meet and be introduced to. So before I talk about myself, I just want to acknowledge that. How would I introduce myself? I think right now I am a business and leadership development coach and I've gone through the path of being an entrepreneur myself. So I started, scaled and

successfully sold my own company over the course of 22 years, which was really exciting for me. And I did that going through phases of development as an entrepreneur. then coming into my second career as a, as a business and leadership coach in being a champion for small business. think that we're in a pretty unique place in the, in the economy and in the world right now, when it comes to small business. And I feel there's a ton of opportunity there. And I.

I really want to just support small business owners to have a more holistic approach to business.

Gordon Sheppard (01:57.897)
Interesting to hear you at this moment in time, if you make a successful exit from your first business, you're not just sitting on a beach somewhere, hanging it up and sort of taking it easy. Like there's something where you're dedicated in there and I just need to put a bit of meat on the bones about your business. Tell me about the nature of what that business was and maybe just a little bit about the startup and maybe highlights in that moment. What was the business and some of the highlights there?

Kari Lotzien (02:23.125)
So I owned a private rehabilitation clinic. So we were a multidisciplinary clinic focusing primarily on pediatric therapy services. And I often joke that I came to entrepreneurship through the back door. I had no intention of being a business owner at all. I was raised by a family that the entire goal was that you got a government job with great benefits and a pension. You stayed there for 40 years, you retired and you moved on. I...

started on that path. went to university, I got the degree. I was an occupational therapist by trade. I did work for Alberta Health Services for a few years and something happened within me while I was in that role that I would constantly be thinking there's a better way to do this. If I owned my company, this is how we would do it or this is what I would try or this is what I want to explore. And it surprised me to be honest. I didn't know that I had that part and the

kind of the catalyst, I guess, was when I had my first son. And now this is really going to age me. The day that I dropped him off for his very first day of daycare was 9-11.

So in that moment, I showed up at work that day, fully expecting that we were all going to be turned around and told to, you know, go hug your babies, be with your family. And that was not the experience I had. It was check on your child at noon. He's fine. Be there for your family. Do not get yourself distracted. You're here to do a job. And something happened to me in that moment. And I thought, I don't think this is going to be for me long-term. I don't think this is the type.

of working parent that I want to be. It was really important for me to have a career. I knew that I wanted to serve. I absolutely loved my job. Like I really loved what I did, but I thought there has to be a better way to do it. And therefore when I went on my second maternity leave, I took the opportunity to build the business and started off just owning my job thought I'll just try to get some clients. I will, you know, go on my own and private practice and it worked.

Kari Lotzien (04:37.439)
And it grew over time. within the first, I think it was about the first three years, I hired my first other therapist to join me simply because I was stretched beyond my capacity. And I think it wasn't until I had hired my third therapist that I realized, I think I have a business. I think at that point, I just thought we were a group of people that were just trying to do great work. So that morphed and I started to

really lean into what opportunities are there. How can we do things differently? How can we truly serve our clients well? And that grew over 22 years and then got to the point where it was bigger than I think I wanted or felt like I could really lead well at this point in my life and my career. And that's when I moved into selling it, which that happened right in the middle of COVID. So,

There's some interesting stories around there as well, which I mean, every entrepreneur has stories of the highs and the lows and everything in between of what that was. But yeah, that was my journey to this.

Gordon Sheppard (05:42.748)
Well, and there's a through line of wanting to help and do it better. That's through the whole thing. I can hear that. Like, you know what I mean? From, from the university days on into that early days on in through the, that business piece that you're talking about describing in there. My son just turned 25 today and I'm having that moment of like, I remember when he's like around 18 and we weren't driving to hockey rinks anymore and having that kind of moment. How neat that you are, you know, those big events helped you to take action. There's a lot of people where the big events don't motivate.

Kari Lotzien (05:48.897)
consistent.

Kari Lotzien (06:05.539)
Right?

Gordon Sheppard (06:12.716)
change. You know what mean? You were in your career, you probably could have stayed there for the 40 years like you said, but there's something in you that wanted to go make a difference and something in you that became an entrepreneur but not through I'm gonna be an entrepreneur. It's just you wanted to do good work and then you grew this business around you. Obviously you did it well. So whether you're an instinctive entrepreneur or not, that was there for the taking. How nice then that you scaled it to a point and recognized as a leader that that wasn't right for you at that scale.

That's really interesting. Like there's a lot of ego can hang in there for too long. If you, that's, if that's what's making you unhappy, right? But you actually made that exit scenario and I'm sure we could talk on and on and on about how that goes there. But we really get a sense now of, of who you are, why you're sort of where you've arrived to what you've done and how lucky for people that you would be helping that are business leaders, organizational leaders to then you, with your pedigree of experience coming in there of like, you know, been there, done that, know what it's like to just drag yourself in with a

cup of coffee, know what it's like to get those highs, that next person, empower staff, help your clients. I mean, I can hear all that very, very clearly. Well, that's great. So that leads us to our first question in this interview, which is, if you had to describe your biggest win in the work that you've done, maybe over your whole career or whatever you want to pick out, please, what would that win be and how would you describe it?

Kari Lotzien (07:29.026)
Yeah, I think my biggest win in business, of course, like I could, I could tell you all about my amazing family. And as you've alluded, when you have kids in their twenties, there's some real pride there. And when, when you raise good people. So I think that would be my number one, but in business, I think my biggest win was honestly being able to sell that practice. looking back, I think

That's where I really recognized what a win it truly was at the time. And I would say that was a theme throughout my entire career is I didn't always recognize the win when it was present. I often recognized it after. So I think that's why I love the anatomy of a win because, you know, hindsight's 2020. And at the time I actually did not recognize what an amazing thing that had happened. I sold my practice to one of my employees, which I was really proud of.

And in that transition, she was really set up for success. My team was set up for success to be able to continue on. I have a real, like such a sense of pride when I see that business still serving and growing and doing so well now. So that absolutely my biggest win in business was the sale.

Gordon Sheppard (08:45.115)
doing a successful sale and doing it right. And we're going to unpack that for sure. And it's funny that you said that thing about the, didn't recognize those moments along the way. was giving a talk the other day on how to win when you're feeling lonely as a leader and a senior leader of a significant organization said, just had that stunned pause moment of like, wow, we never hit the brakes to celebrate where we are right now. And I'm amazed when I asked that question, like origin story for me around

where I'm at now in the executive wins moment is when I was in a workshop teaching about, funny enough about effective meetings. And I said, by the way, you know, how do you celebrate when something goes well? And no hands go up generally. And then I said, does anybody have a wins list? And I can tell you, every audience I'm in now, it's like I'm a standup comedian because I say, put your hand up if you have a wins list. if one or two hands up go in a hundred people, that is unusual, which is a real reflection of our maverick.

leadership thing that we've been snowed under by and misguided by, think, to not have any moments along the way where it's just onto the next thing, onto the next thing, onto the next thing. So it's a joy. And I'm glad to hear you picked up on that anatomy of the that we're to be jumping into now to explore yours, to sort of say, yeah, looking back and what could that have been kind of along the way. But what I'm hearing is the win is you made a successful exit and you did it in the right way and jumping into the anatomy of a win. Then let's talk about the strategy, the work plan, the people.

the operations and results behind that win. So strategically, there's a moment, I heard 22 years. So if we talk about exit being, tell me what year, yeah, so if you had to make that exit, how many years out were you when you knew you were gonna exit to start to get this set up and do it right? How many years did that take?

Kari Lotzien (10:28.728)
Well, the first thing I want to acknowledge here is it ties in with the celebration. I think part of the reason that many entrepreneurs have a hard time celebrating is because we often start the new thing before the old thing wraps up. So there's not that sense of pause. And I think that's what it was for me. There was a lot of overlap. And I feel that what that did for me and for my nervous system was it gave me that sense of stability that I wasn't, you know,

completely moving away from one thing and onto the next. And there was this chasm in between. I often overlapped. And when you talk about the strategy, this thing had been brewing. I had been questioning for a solid five years. Was it time? Was it time to move on? What did I want for my life? The challenge was every person that I reached out to, to get advice, right? So I'm a huge believer in advisory.

So I would reach out to business coaches and lawyers and advisors and accountants and financial planners. And I would say, OK, so here's what I'm thinking. And every single one of them said, don't do it.

don't sell and it was, I know it was because our business was at a stage of incredible growth. And what had happened is when I had made the internal decision that I was ready to let this go, I became deeply committed to ensuring that we had a very solid revenue stream so that when I let that go, I knew that it was going to be okay on its own. So the business had a lot of strength and everyone that I talked to on my advisory team said,

But if you held it for another three to five years, we could probably triple what you would get back out of it.

Gordon Sheppard (12:19.44)
And doesn't that speak to you as a person? Somewhere early on, you were supposed to go do a 40 year career in Alberta Health Services and you didn't do that at that point. And then consistently, here you are again, you've got probably solid advice. Do you know what mean? If you're talking about EBITDA and you would have gone through all the sort of, how many times, and you're talking about a regular revenue stream with regular, with customers, it's a very buyable business. Again, it's same thing, not dissimilar to the...

all the chiropractics and dental practices that get those establishes bases as you kind of go forward, but you didn't. That's really interesting. So strategically, if we look at vision mission values, values, what values scream through with that internal voice? How do you describe your value set that you're going to go against the advice in a sense? How would you describe that?

Kari Lotzien (13:08.054)
And I think to acknowledge, you're absolutely right. Like these people, they were giving good advice. They knew exactly what they were talking about and they were absolutely right. And cognitively, I knew that. Right. And there were some people I often giggle because there was two times in my life that my dad told me, is ridiculous. This is the dumbest thing you've ever done. Once was when I started my business and the second was when I sold it. So I think people

It would not have been uncommon for people to say like, what is she doing? This is crazy. And I think coming back to the values is that I have this ongoing relief that your business needs to fit with your life. And the truth is who I was as a 20 something entrepreneur with young kids who was starting this rehabilitation clinic, that person had changed. What I wanted in my life had changed. And I had to not only look at

what was viable, what was profitable, what was going to contribute to my retirement. But I had to look at what was life going to look at between the point that I am at today and where I was going to be by the time that retirement happened. And no one could answer that for me. No one could reason it out when it came to an EBITDA number or a profit number or a growth number. was an internal thing and I had to sit with myself and say,

What I want in my life right now is flexibility. I want to be able to travel and to do that consistently. And it was really important to me that whatever I did next was location independent. And when I sat with that and went through and thought, okay, so could I stay as owner of this business and not be in it in the day to day operation? So that was an option. But knowing myself, like checking myself and as you said, like

I've never shied away from the hard work. So to sit back and not feel like I carried responsibility within the business, I knew that on a personal level, that was going to be difficult. That's not the case for everybody. And I think this is where what I do now in talking to clients is you have to decide for yourself how your business fits with your life. And it's about designing it to make sure that that works. And there's multiple ways to do that.

Kari Lotzien (15:34.44)
That was the value that I had to really lean on is what do I want for my life?

Gordon Sheppard (15:39.347)
What do I want for my life? And being in a moment where I'm going to say most entrepreneurs don't let go, right? The letting go part, especially, especially when it's cash positive, it's one thing, you know, things are bad, but when it's cash positive, you know, that would be a really difficult thing to do, except in the strategy, when we think about the value set, you're being true to yourself and you're really, really clear. There's a heavy lift you've done in personal development and leadership development or whatever.

that got you, yeah, I mean, you're speaking very articulately. There's no, but you're speaking very articulately right now. Do you know what mean? But that clarity of like knowing who you are and when to do the right thing for yourself and your family, has that always been there? You know, in a sense, and maybe it has, cause it's 9-11 and boom, you're gonna make a change. And then now you're at this moment, you're gonna make a change. Like, has it always been there or did you need to sort of earn that in a sense through self-reflection and that kind of

Kari Lotzien (16:09.358)
Stubbornness? I don't know.

Kari Lotzien (16:34.286)
I definitely think it's always been there. I don't know that I recognized it in the same way. I think with maturity, I've now come to listen to it a little bit more. But I have a quote and I say, never waste a great crisis. Because I think there is something that happens to us in moments of crisis or challenge. So dropping my son off for his first day of daycare and 9-11 happening, all of a sudden revenue going to zero overnight during COVID.

when I've decided that I'm going to sell this business. I think anytime, whether it's a health scare, whether it's something happening in our family or a world event, there's these moments that I think we get really, really clear.

And I learned to listen to that, that when it felt right, I knew. I don't think if I wouldn't, I think that if I wouldn't have paused and really acknowledged that this is what feels right for me and here's why, because I'm designing my life, I think letting go would have been much harder. Because I'm not going to lie. Years past, if I ever hesitated and went, did I make the right decision in selling when I did? It always had to do with the financial piece of it.

Like, did I walk away too soon? I, did I check out? But when I compare to the designing my life side, I've never had a regret.

Gordon Sheppard (17:54.832)
And that's super clear. Again, a lot of folks just don't get clear in that, to that level of clarity and the pause thing that you gave yourself, whatever that gift was, instinct, gift, whatever you did to get that pause, to be able to allow that to occur. That is just absolutely remarkable. Well, congratulations. mean, that's, again, I think so many folks, especially in that moment would have a hard time because the money's the motivator. It's not in your case. You're saying lifestyle and balance and design.

was really, really important. And I think that's a really great message for anybody that's listening here. Having been in the room coaching wise, you often you're reminding me of moments where I look at somebody and I say, they're like, I've got to let somebody go, or I've got to make this big decision or whatever. I'm like, what's your gut? And they often answer just with super clear, like just the way you're sounding. It's like, to me, you're sounding like after that question was asked, either from yourself to yourself or whatever, because your gut really understood what you needed to do. But a lot of people will put a lot of noise in front of

making maybe what feels uncomfortable or whatever that is, although it didn't sound like you felt uncomfortable at all. I'm just saying there's a real understanding of yourself to get to that moment. So now we understand what the win is. You made the successful exit. We know some of the strategic underlying parts. Funny enough, dollars, no, yes to life and whole life living. And lucky that you were able to do that as well. The timeline piece around.

Kari Lotzien (19:11.0)
I wouldn't say dollars, no, I want to preface that. So I'm not one that's like, money doesn't matter. Let's just live the life I want. Money was also important. Like I did want to find the balance. So I want to just highlight that, that I wasn't.

Gordon Sheppard (19:22.918)
No, I'm so, so yeah, I don't mean to diminish that. I just mean to say it wasn't the number one priority for you in terms of the, you know, again, and that's up against the advice that you were mentioning along the way. There's this five years. So it was at 2020 when the idea sets in. So it's 2020, a pretty remarkable time. You know, as everyone thinks back to March, 2020, when those green hats were out for St. Patrick's day, and then they never came off those office desks because they had to stay there for a year when everybody had to return to work and do those things.

Kari Lotzien (19:28.62)
Yes.

Gordon Sheppard (19:51.932)
There's the idea, and then we come to this moment in time. What year was the sale?

Kari Lotzien (19:57.006)
2022.

Gordon Sheppard (19:58.544)
Okay. So it's in a two year period of time. So you sort of had the concept and then you were able to do it. What started to happen? What are the highlights in the work plan that made it so successful? Cause you said I had to guarantee revenue in a sense, or you did your best to make sure it was rock solid. made sure to have a successor, which means you would have done a lot of planning in there in terms of what it was. You were optimizing for EBITDA. You would have been optimizing for a sale price that was optimized to the best level that you get it to by that time. What are some of the highlights in that timeline of 24 months is in a sense?

that made it work.

Kari Lotzien (20:32.76)
might be best to start off with the low light. So I remember so clearly. So I had made the decision internally. I had set the plan in motion that I knew I was going to sell. So my husband and I had taken a weekend away in Canmore. We were finally getting away for a long weekend and I had booked an extra day, which was really difficult at that time in a growing, business. And my phone started ringing on Saturday night and it was my team saying, we're worried.

what happens if what happens if all the schools close because at this point our revenue was linked to providing services for schools. And in that moment I said, you know, we need to divide this out. You know, what do we know for sure? What are we worried about or afraid of? And what is something that we have absolutely no control over and it is wasted energy. And I said, let's just put it into categories. Now I didn't have a plan for that.

Part of me, just needed to get my feet on the ground and figure out what was going on. That's where we started. And then 24 hours later, school's closed and our revenue went to zero overnight. That was my entire revenue. So I've just made the decision. I'm selling this business. And now I don't know if I have a business to sell 24 hours later because all of the fear, what am I afraid of? What do I think might happen? Right? So our revenue may go to zero. What does that just?

do for the saleability of my company. And I thought, okay, well, if I stay there, that's not going to get us anywhere.

But I knew I needed to dig deep. I knew this was a moment where there was no going back. I say crisis creates clarity. I had never been more clear. I knew that my number one priority was my team. I had an amazing team of really strong therapists and I felt instantly responsible to their mortgages and their bills. And I thought if at all possible, I just won't let them go. So we held a team meeting. We all came together.

Kari Lotzien (22:37.73)
And I said, okay, here's what we know for sure. Schools are closed. Here's what's going on. Here's my plan. Here's our options. What would you like to do? And my team across the board said, lay us off.

Yes, that was exactly my reaction. What? Like I thought, now this is it, house of cards. The whole thing has crumbled, it's done.

But I trusted them. I trusted that for them to feel safe and when they explained to me why that's what they wanted, they said, Kari, if our fears come true and this is long-term, there are going to be so many applications that are going in for unemployment insurance that it might be months before we get any money and we're really afraid.

I couldn't deny it. So as much as I did not want to, I laid them all off the next morning in the midst of tears and ROIs and it was, it was crazy. but I did it. And then I got really serious as to what am going to do to get this back? So we pivoted really quickly. I reached out to every single school division that we were involved with. I said, we have already started the process. So we were already.

ahead of the curve a little bit, had gone to online reporting. So we had eliminated paper files. We had already started to explore doing, video therapy, but it was in a platform that was, conducive to the privacy acts in Canada. So we were set up, we were ready to go. I just had to now pull the lever to make it all happen. So I dedicated 10 solid days to learning everything I could about this program, talking to everyone I could.

Kari Lotzien (24:24.428)
and thought I'm saving this thing no matter what. And within two weeks, our entire team was hired back and we were off and running. So in that time, I didn't actually lay off one person permanently.

Gordon Sheppard (24:40.411)
Wow. I mean, that is just unbelievable because of your own loss of the last 10 years of your own life during that two week period. You know what I mean? Like there's just the pressure would have been.

Kari Lotzien (24:49.651)
the number of grays.

Gordon Sheppard (24:54.265)
Absolutely, and what a remarkable moment. So there you were, thought you were out of business. I've heard that multiple times on the podcast. Sean Hoff was on from Moniker Corporate Events. Corporate Events, it's March 2020, things are good. It's April 2020, zero dollars. They went to online, they ended up doing online murder mysteries. They sold more, they did more in revenue that year with online murder mysteries for their corporate clients who needed something. And then they came back stronger and he maintained the team. Interesting that you were able to, again,

Kari Lotzien (25:22.05)
We doubled our revenue. We doubled our revenue that next year in the COVID days.

Gordon Sheppard (25:23.792)
W doubled your revenue in the COVID days. Isn't that, and you couldn't have, again, talk about selling your business and it was a lucky thing to go through torture to get to the other side on the revenue side for sure.

Kari Lotzien (25:34.936)
Right? Yeah. And, and I would be absolutely remiss to say that I had that planned out or that I knew. I think it was just when there's no other option and you think, okay. And the one thing that I had is I trusted my team so fully that I was always willing to say, okay, I will take the hit. If that means you will feel more stable.

Gordon Sheppard (25:57.084)
Well, and I'll just jump in and say the leadership masterclass that I'm picking up in here is there's little moments of like your first moment in that conversation that you had with your team. You sounded very, very clear. It could be this, this or this. There wasn't sort of panic in there. There's just like, nope, I'm gonna put on the options sort of thing that's going forward. Also, I heard in there, we had already made the proactive move for the online and if I say FOIP or whatever it is, privacy issues.

we were getting ready, because you would have seen that trend coming. That's another smart business operator move that you, those are hard investments to make, because you don't know if they're going to pay off necessarily right away, but you're Johnny on the spot then for that moment when it did arrive, which then allowed you to sort of go through to this then. So we hear in the timeline, there's a decision, there's a lay everybody off, there's get them all back, there's 10 days of learn as fast as you can, there's double the revenue. Like we could hit the other rocket ship points then along this timeline that then lead you through to that.

two year moment when you did actually pull the trigger and sell. That's just, thank you for describing some of what happened as we kind of got there and then the amount of time took. By the way, I think two years is relatively short turnaround for selling a business of the nature that you're describing. So there's something about, again, your clarity of internal understanding of what you needed to do and then being able to execute on that. That's another piece that leaders are gonna take a lot away from when they listen to this story on the podcast for sure. So now we've got strategy work plan. There's always people involved in a win.

We've heard a lot about you and your grittiness in a sense through this two-year period, but how would you describe your own attitude at the beginning? You know, when you made the decision and on through the two years, is it roller coaster, easy sailing? What do think?

Kari Lotzien (27:37.216)
gosh, no, not easy sailing. I think what I kept coming back to is this concept, which now became the catalyst for the second business is anchored leadership.

What I knew in that moment, and I have kind of a funny story about it. My husband who I've been with now for over 25 years, his grandfather used to call me the anchor. And at the time I actually thought he was calling me the ball and chain. Like I thought he was saying like, you know, you're the one that holds everybody back. And over a cup of coffee one day, he says to me, no, no, Kari, like, it's not that he said when the seas of life gets stormy and they always will.

It is not our job to calm the waters of the ocean. It's not our job to start captaining everyone's ship. It is our job to be the anchor. And he said, that's what you do. And I think that's what really stood out for me is that as we were navigating these difficult times, as we were going through some of the challenges that selling the business brought, some of the fears, some of the challenges, you know, going through all of these things that

My role in that was to hold that place of stability, no matter what was going on around, no matter what I was experiencing, but for my team to say, okay, here's what we know. Here's what our options are. Here's what I think we should do next. Right? Like, and it's not so much what the options are, but you can feel, you can sense we're going to be okay. We're going to figure it out. Even maybe when my internal voice was going like, my gosh, what are we going to do?

I knew that as a leader, it was my role to maintain that sense of being anchored. And we used to do that all the time in therapy. I mean, that was a big part of what I did. And I think now teaching leaders how to do that was part of moving forward. So I think that when we talk about people, I reached out, I had great advisors, I had a phenomenal team.

Kari Lotzien (29:45.185)
It was really challenging for me. And probably the biggest challenge in this is I had always led from transparency. So if I was making hard decisions, I was often telling my team about that and not in a full, you know, tell them all the dirty parts, but I would, it was really important for me that they knew my direction and why I was making the decisions that I was. And my advisory team was saying, no, no, when you, when you've made the decision to sell, don't tell your team.

that it's really important that business operates as usual. That was really challenging because I felt like I was being untruthful.

Gordon Sheppard (30:25.689)
It's a moral stress, right, of sorts, right, where you're actually sort of stuck in that moment of like, well, I feel like the right thing I would do, except there's that stress. It's unique to leadership, right? We have to carry that aspect along the way and be the anchor. And how lucky to have, you know, your grandfather-in-law or whatever, just get that chance to have you solidify that philosophy and then help you reflect on that to know that that's there. And then you're in that pass it along.

joy that you're in now, where you help leaders learn how to become the anchor and you would be able to help them put the pieces in place to do that along the way. There's you in this moment, there's your staff, they're willing to sort of jump on the sword for the business. You can hear that when they all sort of said, lay us all off. And then in the meantime, two weeks later, you got them all back. You had these great advisors, strong family in there sort of doing your thing. And that gives us a good sense of maybe the people that were involved, strategy work plan people. There's operational components that we've already heard.

ready for online, right? Then that's a huge moment in terms of say, operationalizing this. And then there would have been, once those people are back two weeks later, it's not business as usual for what they do when they go to the office every day. How did they operationalize sort of their tasks and duties in a sense to adjust to what then turned into double revenue?

Kari Lotzien (31:43.343)
And I think this is where the big pivot happened for me. And I think in leadership, I feel like I started frontline as a therapist doing the job and I led from beside them, right? We were doing the same job. We were figuring it out together. And then I think I moved into a position of management. So I was providing the answers. I was providing the direction. I was captaining the ship. I think in shifting to this next level. So we were in literally uncharted territory. Nobody really knew what was going on.

I knew where I was aiming in terms of having a sellable business, but I also knew that something had to change internally so that my team was not feeling abandoned when I did leave. So it became really critical for me, especially in the last 18 months that I developed other leaders in my team so that what I was doing is teaching those leadership skills to them. So I actually shifted any of the hires that we made in the last year. I did not train them anymore.

So we had a training protocol that was a shared responsibility of our entire team, but everyone knew their part. knew their metrics. They knew competency measures. They knew, and it was all laid out, but then they had kind of a shared responsibility in the growth. That I think was the main pivot. I don't think if I would have developed other leaders within the team, I don't know that it would have been successful as I moved away because, because I was so invested.

Gordon Sheppard (33:14.139)
And we can hear there's somewhere in there, there's a genius process document. You just said it. There's a checklist or something in there that was actually laid that out for the onboarding. Is that, is that true?

Kari Lotzien (33:25.63)
This was the hardest part for me, Gord, to be very honest with you. I did not come to, which is funny considering what I do now. I talk so much about systems. It was the thing that I came to kicking and screaming. I, I was so, I just wanted people to be creative. I wanted them to do it their own way. I didn't want to micromanage. And I thought, I will not do this. And I had an advisor that leaned in and said, all of these things, 22 years of business is

in between your ears. And the most value that you currently have in this business is in the ways that you think. So you have to get that out. So during COVID, I sat, and this was before AI, right? So there was no, like, there was no speeding this up. It was as hard and as treacherous as it sounds. I sat and I wrote out all of our systems that were, and everything from how we onboard a new customer to how we hire.

how we hold accountability conversations, what we need to do at year end. And I created this massive document that was the Bible on here's how to run this business. There was. Yeah, it was.

Gordon Sheppard (34:34.214)
Congratulations. Most people kind of don't get at it. In my world, it's funny, the anatomy of a win is above the water on our iceberg. What's the win? What's the anatomy of a win? And then we get into my work that I do in the advisory side and I call it the executive winning system. And it is a ridiculous, I think it might be 600 pages now of prompts for every, I can capture about 90 % of a business in there when I'm working with the leaders to...

And they're looking at me wide-eyed. I had a guy the other day, he's like, SOPs, standard operating procedure. What are you talking about? And I said the same thing. I said the same thing, the whole thing's packed up in your head. What if you, I always say, win the lottery instead of get hit by a bus. What if you win the lottery and you're not here? And so I'm so glad to hear that you went through it kicking and screaming, but you did it. And when we look at correlation to the multiple that you got at the end, that is massively correlated to how well your business did on the sales side, along with...

Kari Lotzien (35:07.219)
with the eye roll.

Gordon Sheppard (35:29.466)
the consistency that you wanted to bring to the people that you felt responsible for as well. mean, congratulations, that's a big, big task. I hope you had a glass of wine after that whole thing was delivered. Is that what happened?

Kari Lotzien (35:41.551)
To be honest, I probably had a few during. Let's be perfectly honest here. Yeah, and to be honest, I probably wouldn't have done it for myself, but I knew that for me to be able to develop leaders, they needed to know what my metrics were. And I knew that for the new owner to feel really solid in what she was doing and set her up for success, this was going to be a part of it. So it was a responsibility. It was a bonus when...

the valuator gave a number to what that was worth. And all of a sudden I was like, those people were not lying. It really did have significant value.

Gordon Sheppard (36:14.188)
Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, the valuator, totally. What do mean you got this, this, and this ready and they don't have to do a spend on that, that, and that? It would have put you in the best possible position. Well, congratulations, it's so interesting. So strategy, work plan, people, operation, we got a bit of highlight in there. Finally, there's results. Quantitative and qualitative results. It's not investigative journalism. If you want to share numbers, please do. But when you look back quantitatively, what are some of the things that you like to highlight? Is it percentage, dollars, people?

whatever the exit actually occurred. that's actually something that is quantitative. But the what do you like to share about the story?

Kari Lotzien (36:53.27)
the metrics that I'm most proud of, to be honest. So I had a number in my mind that I just, and I pulled it out of thin air.

That was the exact dollar value that it was. So I think there's some, you know, there's a little woo woo in that maybe that whether we talk about, you know, Papa Jack and his influence and he went, okay, sure. That sounds good. Let's make this happen. I walked away with the exact dollar value that I wanted. There was no negotiation. Zero. It was just, yep, that sounds fair. It's done. And so it was very smooth. The thing that I was the most proud of is that we did not lose a single client.

in the transition and we didn't lose one single staff member. That's the thing I'm the most proud of.

Gordon Sheppard (37:40.455)
That's remarkable. Cause when new, ownership changes churn is inevitable. It's built in. You build in that factor often to the half or more kind of thing in terms of what that could be. Cause you're out the door, but you did enough in that relationship transfer that knowledge transfer, all that transfer to hit the number. Wow. That's great.

Kari Lotzien (37:59.437)
And I let my team show up at the table. So my team over the last 18 months, they were the ones that were having some of those conversations. They were sitting in the meetings with stakeholders. They were the ones that were training new team members. So when I backed away, which maybe it was easier because we weren't all in the office that it didn't seem like such of a cliff to jump off of. lot of people said like, no, and they say, you know, not to be rude, Kari, but

We kind of didn't notice. We didn't really notice that you weren't here anymore because I was a win.

Gordon Sheppard (38:34.746)
And isn't that a testament to sort of what leadership is supposed to be? And you did that intentionally. You probably knew that was coming to a certain degree as well. And then you saw that and that actually occurred. Wow. I mean, again, thank you so much for sharing so many of the nuances through this win as you're going forward. And we heard some of the quantitative results. Qualitatively, how did it feel?

Kari Lotzien (38:56.12)
better than I thought it would. I wondered if it would feel like, you know, I felt wondered if I'd be like the empty nest or wondering what have I done? And, you know, am I really going to enjoy the other side, the coaching and the consulting and helping other business owners as much as I hoped I would? That part, absolutely. I am as passionate about my career now as I was when I was 20 years old starting this rehabilitation clinic for the first time.

It is as amazing as I wanted it to be. feel like I get to have these really rich, deep conversations where owners are really designing the life that they want. That business isn't kind of dragging them along behind, which let's be honest, some of us have gone through those moments. And I think many of my clients hear that. You know, they say, Kari, I can hear in your voice that you've been there. Like, you know what those moments.

feel like, you know what those sleepless nights feel like, you know what the winds feel like. And I think that gives me a really unique perspective in this position. And I really honor where I get to sit. You know, I feel like I kind of get to sit in the wings and watch my owners do amazing things and design their lives. And when I hear from them, people will say like, what's happened to you? You just seem...

calmer and you I know your business is busier than it's ever been. And I know that you're, you're growing exponentially, but there's something, something's different about you. And they'll share that back with me and say, Kari, it's you. It's the things that we are doing together, but I don't, I'm not in the spotlight at all. They get to own that a hundred percent. And that feels really amazing to me.

Gordon Sheppard (40:38.713)
Wow. What a gift to yourself. What a gift to your family being clear and getting to spend the right time with them as well. Getting that number that's unusual, I think to get to name a number and get a number, but you did the work, you did the lift to get it there. Plus you were pre-COVID ready, funny enough. And so that speaks to what you were doing. You had a lot of clarity. You're about mid career right now, from what I can hear. There might be another two or three ventures in terms of how many podcast episodes we would do later on.

I don't know that, I'm glad to hear what you're doing now, but you got so many just different sort of tools and skills and interests that you developed. There's going to be other evolution along the way. Wow, what a great moment in time to catch up with you. Learn about your win, the strategy, work plan, people, operations, and results behind it. Anytime I have leaders like you on the show, just as we get towards the end of the interview here, I always like to say, you know, if you had a few sentences to pass along to that business leader, what sort of things do you like to pass along for leaders that they can think about?

Kari Lotzien (41:39.96)
think the first is...

Kari Lotzien (41:45.271)
Your life comes first. So anytime that you're thinking about a decision in business, reflect back on the things that matter the most to you. How will this impact you, your health, your family, you know, what you want your life to be? I think that comes first. And it, doesn't mean that we don't sometimes sacrifice or make sacrifices in our personal lives. I think there is a time and a place that we do that. I think that's first. And I think the second is.

Don't be afraid to move into a position where you are developing other leaders. I think that is the legacy that any entrepreneur should leave. Whether it's, you know, you're developing leadership skills in a 15 year old who's, you know, working the counter at your coffee bar. I think that is our, that's our legacy. Don't just do it yourself. Don't put it all on your own shoulders.

but develop leaders behind you because that is what will allow whatever you create to continue after you are off, you know, hopefully, holidaying and drinking great wine in another country, but you feel like you've really left something that has meaning behind you.

Gordon Sheppard (43:00.377)
Wonderfully said, thank you so much for being on the show.

Kari Lotzien (43:05.078)
thank you so much for having me. And I have to say like, every episode that I've listened to of this podcast is so incredibly valuable and to hear all of the different experiences and how people got to the point in their journey that they are. just I want to give you so much appreciation in creating this because I know the value that something like this would have had for me.

especially when I was in those early years wondering what am I doing and am I messing everything up? think hearing stories like this where we know that it's kind of part of it. It's not that you're doing anything wrong. It's just, this is kind of how the journey goes. So I'm incredibly grateful for what you're creating here. And with all of the work you're doing with executives in, your frontline work, it's, this is it. I think this is it when it comes to building business.

Gordon Sheppard (43:59.781)
Thank you for that affirmation and thank you again for sharing so well a story that so many leaders are gonna learn from again, that there's so many moments in here that they're gonna take away. Terrific, great to have you on the show.

Kari Lotzien (44:13.4)
Thanks so much, Gord, I appreciate it.

Gordon Sheppard (44:20.921)
Whoops, hang on a second.