EW 069 – The Power Of Saying Yes To The Right Opportunities – Winning with Serial Entrepreneur Matt Aubin, CEO of KEEN Creative

Gordon Sheppard (00:01.077)
Matt, welcome to the show.

Matt Aubin (00:04.09)
Thanks for having me.

Gordon Sheppard (00:05.464)
Well, it's so good to have someone here who, entrepreneurially, has done so many different things over so many years, created work for people, created new opportunities all along the way, and built up such a great reputation also for giving back and being in peer support with your other fellow leaders in your community. I mean, it's sort of a, it's a very whole sort of entrepreneurial experience I think we're gonna learn about here today. But maybe there's a lot of people that haven't met you just yet. So if you had to describe yourself, what would you say?

Matt Aubin (00:35.118)
Oh, goodness. So my name is Matt Aubin. I've been an entrepreneur in the Edmonton community for, I guess, somewhat coming up to 25 years now. Predominantly, I think I've been known for one of our companies, Keen Creative. And so that business is in year 23 of operations. So we've really been fortunate to work with all kinds of...

of wonderful people, businesses, entrepreneurs, nonprofits, all of that for the last 23 years. And then, know, sort of through that journey, I've had the opportunity to grow some other businesses and to start some new businesses. so that through our, we've got a group of companies called Blackhousings and Blackhousings owns a few businesses. And so, yeah, anyways, I'm just, I'm really thrilled to do what I do.

Gordon Sheppard (01:31.832)
That's so lucky to hear that. And it's fun to meet the folks that have put in the decades. And you're just like, yeah, well I did this and this and this. I mean, it's one thing to start one business, right? So take me a little bit back there and say, what was it like to get that first one off the ground? And then what led to this aspiration, I guess, around multi-business ownership?

Matt Aubin (01:40.14)
Yeah, fair.

Matt Aubin (01:50.352)
goodness. Yeah, I mean, you know, starting Keen, I think really was was a matter of like, I honestly I started as a side project initially. So ran that business for about a year until until I decided, hey, you know, we've got to make a go of this and quit my job and, and started full time. So, you know, I think the reality is, I think for me, just the opportunity to say yes to lots of things has led to

to really my career. feel like, you know, for me, think to being surrounded with wonderful entrepreneurs and a wonderful community inside of Edmonton, you know, I think it's helped me to grow to look at myself more as an entrepreneur than specifically like a creative agency owner or starting my career as a photographer and marketer. And so, you know, I feel really fortunate to have had all kinds of opportunities come my way, which is, you know, has been great.

Gordon Sheppard (02:49.495)
You're reminding me of, I've interviewed over 50 leaders on this show. The humility, thank you for the humility. It's, you know what I mean, the aw shucks and yes I did and did a thing and whatever. There's a lot more to it obviously than that in terms of what it takes to get into a multi-business ownership scenario and like you're describing your investor group and this kind of thing. So, you know, I'll just sort of, we've got a good flavor for kind of where you're coming from and you you started keying creative and you're able to deliver creative on your own and then.

Matt Aubin (02:54.27)
Matt Aubin (03:07.146)
Yeah, for sure.

Gordon Sheppard (03:15.681)
build it up to the company that it is today, along with getting into these other ventures and then having this great community. Got a good sense of kind of maybe who you are. So if you had to describe your biggest win in this journey, what would that win be and how would you describe it?

Matt Aubin (03:26.286)
goodness. I, you know, I'll preface by saying it's, it's really hard to distill, you know, I think winds down to one thing, you know, cause I mean, there can be aspects of, of people and luck and timing and, and all of those. you know, when I was really thinking about, I think for me, just the opportunity or, or I guess, you know, some of the greatest successes and,

When I say success too, think there's aspects of that can be like that can be for sure the wins, but that can also be lots of learnings too. And so for me, that's really been in in saying yes to opportunities. So when things have come up or or even if we've identified, hey, I think there could be this need for a client or a business here or there. I think really saying yes has led to huge growth.

I remember even a time when was like, you know, when Keen was really small and I'll say, you know, I remember a guy who's now been with us for almost 20 years and he was like, well, I want to be like a web developer. And we just kind of thought like, we're never going to need a web developer. Like who will need, you know, web? And so at one point just saying yes to, you know, hey, maybe we should think about that. And, you know, and then that, you know, leads to digital and to all kinds of other things.

and growth opportunities. So yeah, I think there's been some unique wins that have just come from being open. So I say open to ideas and the opportunity to say yes to things, I think has been pretty impactful.

Gordon Sheppard (05:05.911)
There's an adventurousness in that somewhat. Do you know what I mean? Because it's one thing to get the cash flowing and do things, and I'm sure you would have entrepreneurial pinch points where yes, maybe there wasn't a yes, do you know what mean? Or maybe you couldn't or whatever you couldn't, but it sounds like you've said yes and built the muscle to say yes. Would that be something that's happened?

Matt Aubin (05:20.238)
for sure.

Matt Aubin (05:25.985)
Yeah, I think so. And I mean, again, there can be good and bad through sometimes just saying yes. So, you know, I've had to learn, you know, to, I guess, learn to understand what I should and shouldn't say yes to. But I think if it's, if, you know, being open to opportunities has been impactful. And so, like, will equate to, I think, I don't know, like, I'm sure you've heard of the red car theory. And so, you know, I'll just, I'll

share what the red car theory is. So the red car theory is if I asked you right now, I said, hey, how many red cars did you see on your way to work? And you would say, no clue. But if I tell you at the end of today, leaving on your way home, I will give you $10 for every red car you see. You will for sure see all of those red cars. You'll be like, I saw exactly 36 red cars.

Gordon Sheppard (06:02.903)
But yeah, right, no idea.

Matt Aubin (06:18.07)
So I feel like opportunities is 100 % that same thing. And so just being open to it, so being open to seeing them or identifying them or asking the, what if we did this or what if we tried that, I think has led to, I think, the career that I have now where it hasn't just been a creative business.

we've had the opportunity to do all kinds of different things and have ownership in different businesses, work with different people. And I think, and I'll say some learnings through some of that too has been what I should and shouldn't say yes to, because sometimes it's like, this is a distraction or that sounds like a good idea, but really when you vet it or you validate it, it might not be. And so I think learning to...

Yeah, learning to vet things to some extent is good too.

Gordon Sheppard (07:16.439)
Well, and you know, having spoken to other folks like yourself, some of those learnings can be pretty expensive. Do you know what mean? when you say yes to that wrong thing, right? But then, I mean, it's going in your direction. So this ability to say yes to the right opportunities as you develop that skillset over time. Well, that's a great way to describe a win. I love it. It's so eloquent. And so if we jump in to say, let's now examine the anatomy of that win. So let's take a look at the strategy, work plan, people, operations, and results.

Matt Aubin (07:21.742)
For sure. Yeah.

Matt Aubin (07:31.34)
Yeah. Thanks. Yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (07:41.899)
behind this ability to say yes in a sense. So if we look at strategy and we think about values, vision, mission, goals, this kind of thing, is it, how would you, highlight from the strategic approach gets you to be able to say yes to the right opportunity?

Matt Aubin (07:48.952)
Yep.

Matt Aubin (07:54.19)
I think strategically, the opportunity, I'll say, is beneficial to current clients or solves a need for particular clients, or if I can connect the dots to things to help something to scale and grow, that seems like a pretty solid fit. Or again, if I think that, you know,

If I can look at something and say, OK, there's benefit for our team in this, or we're able to position or maybe move someone in a career to offer this and to grow them in a different manner, I think things like that from a strategic standpoint can make sense. Yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (08:38.539)
Makes sense, yeah, absolutely. if we, what's fun, maybe we can just pick on one of your good yeses. Have you got a yes that you'd like to talk about in the world where you picked one and we can maybe use it as an example to move us through this?

Matt Aubin (08:49.55)
Boy, okay, this might be a hard one. Well, I'll say like maybe I'll share a current yes. And so we're currently in a startup mode for a different business that is called Venture Out. And that realistically came about from me hunting to find a new acquisition of business. And really what I found through that is

just recognizing an opportunity that exists in the market around current entrepreneurs and people exiting their business. And for me, looking at that opportunity, was just like, hey, I think there's a significant gap in the market. We're facing this, you know, a huge exit of entrepreneurs. I think the status, somewhere about 70 to 80 % of entrepreneurs want to divest or exit their business in the next 10 years.

But lots are not set up properly for that. And so for me, really having like a huge passion for entrepreneurship, being around entrepreneurs all the time and seeing that there's this gap and opportunity is, you know, is something that, you know, I've been focused on sort of for the last year in growing up this new business called Venture Out. And so, I mean, it has nothing to do at all with create with the creative agency or a creative business.

It's just happening.

Gordon Sheppard (10:09.815)
But you can hear in your portfolio of thinking, do you know what I mean? Like, cause again, this ability to say yes has gotten you into many different places. And so again, what we're seeing is your thought process around what that looks like. It sounds like you're sort of on that hunt with that sort of skillset and ability to identify trends, abilities, get things up and running. And this one is actually fun to sort of, and what a great one to do. I don't know if it's.

Matt Aubin (10:18.456)
Yeah, fair.

Matt Aubin (10:22.872)
Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Aubin (10:32.941)
Thanks. Yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (10:33.121)
how many trillions in transfer it is that you, you know, even if you get even sort of in that area with the need and then lucky for the folks that are coming when you're coming into their world, because you've got all your good entrepreneurial experience along the way as you're doing that too. So great. So we've got this ability to say yes. Strategically, we have, I'm to say the mindset, because you know, it sounds like there's all these different ways that you can apply strategic thinking to what you're doing to meet the market need like you were mentioning. And now we've got maybe a bit of an example to pick on in one of your newer.

Matt Aubin (10:44.386)
Yeah. Thanks, court.

Matt Aubin (10:51.725)
Yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (11:00.149)
Venture Outs, where you're helping with exits along the way. Anytime we have a strategy, we need a work plan. So let's just take the Venture Out one for a moment and back up on the timeline and just we'll pick on that one. Keen, I know we can go back 23 years, whatever it is, and figure that out. But let's go on the Venture Out one just for fun and say, OK, so when was that an idea? And then if we got the timeline and put the dashes on the board, you know, from whatever left to right, what would that timeline look like?

Matt Aubin (11:06.945)
Yeah.

Matt Aubin (11:10.702)
Sure.

Matt Aubin (11:19.694)
Sure. Yep. Yeah, so that business has been, and I think to some extent too, so I'll say we've been working on it for about a year now. And it kind of came about even as well as I just couldn't let it go. Like I had this idea and I'm just like, I just can't let this go. And so oftentimes for me as like, I think as an ideas person,

like ideas can flow all the time. And so if it's something that I can't get past, I feel like I'm sort of on to something. So, you know, really the work plan for that, I mean, there's been a ton of lifting as far as, well, we got to figure out like what that service is, what the offering is, you know, how we go about it, how we go about it more efficiently, how we bring this forward in a new modern world of AI, you know, what tools can we bring along, what that looks like, you know,

validating the idea. both so part of it, we're building out some technology. So we're validating the technology. We're validating the idea before we spend a whole pile more into it. And yeah, just and then working on the strategically like, you know, how we're going to go about it, what we're saying what we're like, I mean, there's, there's just a ton that goes into that, you know, that whole work plan. Well, yeah, like I would say, so our goal is to be really have launched that business by July.

Gordon Sheppard (12:36.064)
But are we talking 18 months right now? Two years? What's the time total time?

Matt Aubin (12:44.91)
And so I would say it's a pretty solid, yeah, maybe 14 months since sort of inception.

Gordon Sheppard (12:52.673)
Well, pretty rapid, do you know what mean? To get your prototyping up and running and get some feedback. And that's interesting. I just mean to, so thank you for that example. Cause I think if we went back to Keen Creative and then I'm sure the other, I don't know if it's a half dozen or dozen ventures that you would mention that you've been involved with, we can hear the you part, the leadership part of the entrepreneur part coming out in these examples where it's like, you really kind of know how to get at it.

Matt Aubin (12:56.846)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (13:15.657)
and make it prove out over time. then that's funny because the keen thing, I don't know how long the startup cycle would have been for that one, but my guess is your startup cycles are also decreasing based on your experience. Is that fair?

Matt Aubin (13:22.328)
Yeah.

Matt Aubin (13:26.297)
Boy, you know, I don't know to be quite honest, because, you know, like I would say Keane started just as a napkin and we were like, hey, you know, was like, I'm going to do this and I'm going to go out and start and I honestly started as a photographer. I was like, you know, I'll start, you know, taking photos of, of kids and babies. So I like, I honestly probably started it like, you know, overnight. I probably to some extent. So now, you know, I'll say I'm for sure far more methodical in the approach.

For sure more strategic in it. So really thinking, know, OK, well, you know, where do we want to be? You know our our five years or 10 years from now, three years from now, a year from now. What do have to accomplish the next quarter? What do we have to accomplish in the next month to really move this stuff forward? And so. I don't know, I might say like I might suggest it's getting longer. You know.

Gordon Sheppard (14:15.155)
Interesting. Okay, so there we go. So we have this ability to say yes as a success metric in a sense through your entire time that you're talking about. We have a strategic aspect where you're able to sort of line things up. And then we have these examples of multi ventures that you try where you're able now to actually take a more thoughtful process and not get stuck on shiny objects. Because those yeses can be pretty shiny in terms of getting excited, especially when you're an ideas guy with five of them a day or whatever it is that you're coming up with. So we've got that strategy work plan.

Matt Aubin (14:38.211)
Yes.

Totally. Yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (14:44.023)
there's always people involved in a win. So if you have the ability to say yes, this will be fun. Who do you listen to who maybe can challenge you when you go to say yes or are you just a top of the food chain and you just you're the go getter?

Matt Aubin (14:55.181)
Yeah.

No, you know, like there can be, and I'll say so as an ideas person, there can be good, you know, good points and bad points about listening to others. And so I'll say my, you know, maybe one of my my strong suits is seeing a little bit further than than others. So, so I would, I would of attribute or look at like, you know, business as a road trip. And so

If so, I think there's a lot there has to be lots of different things that are and as a group, we have to be aligned as far as like what we're going or where we're going. Sorry. And so for me to just say, I think we should be here by X, like people are often like, well, what does that mean? Like, how do we where do we get gas? Where do we stop? But where am I going to? Why are we going there? Like all of these things. so sometimes that ability to see far down the road can be challenging, I'll say, from a standpoint of

listening to someone else who can only see, you know, five feet in front of them. And so like, think those people that are like, Hey, I can only see what's in the now, like right here, right now doing this one thing that's very impactful. And you know, you mentioned people, I think you need to have people at various steps of like the journey to some extent. And so, you know, I'll say there's ideas that I've had over the years that maybe I should have pursued, but listened to others. And so by the time, you know, it kind of came

you like a year down the road, they're like, you know, you should have done that thing. You know, but I but they've dissuaded me into some regard. so

Gordon Sheppard (16:32.535)
Isn't that interesting? So you've got enough proof in multiple ventures to have confidence in saying, you know what, I can see the end of the road trip. you know, and in fact, so then you've got a nice balanced approach about, and I was just challenging in, I often talk to leaders on the coaching side, say, hey, who do you listen to? And that brings up an interesting conversation. But I like your perspective here because you're saying, wait a second, maybe I'm onto something. You reminded me back in 1994, I hi-hat camera.

Matt Aubin (16:52.846)
Great. Yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (16:59.351)
I was in the TV business and I just, went and I thought, you know what, I'm to go do a videotape inside my buddy's house. And I'm just going to put together a VHS tape at that time. And I'm going to shop that around with you. And I never pursued that idea, but had I pursued that idea in 1994, it's one of those ones when I look back and go, Oh, wow, that's one of those ones where I wish I had sort of, you know, been a, it would have been pioneering at the time to be on that interior home kind of aspect. And so that's really interesting that you've got.

Matt Aubin (17:00.92)
Okay, yeah.

Matt Aubin (17:26.742)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (17:28.641)
people in your life, but you now know how to deal with them, get the best out of them in a sense, but also then not limit yourself. Is that what I'm hearing?

Matt Aubin (17:31.916)
Honestly

Matt Aubin (17:35.512)
That's right. Yeah, like I think, you know, I used to get be in this habit of, and this is just more recent too, that I'm, I'm even discovering this because I think, you know, we're learning all the time. And so, you know, more recently, like I used to go out and ask for like, you know, you're, I'm looking for consensus. Like I want someone to say like, my gosh, you're so genius. That is a hundred percent the deal. But the reality is, is if, someone doesn't necessarily see it, they're not going to respond in that way. So I was always sort of looking for validation and ideas.

where I've had to learn that, you know, I can't get past this one. I'm going to pursue it. But you know, maybe what am I not seeing or asking differently rather than saying, hey, do you think this is a good idea? Because, know, that's a really, that's a tough position to put anybody into to say like, hey, should I pursue this? Should I risk, you know, because, you know, if I said, hey, I need to mortgage my house again or do all these things, what do you think?

And someone's like, yeah, sure, great, great idea. Like, that's a big responsibility to put on someone. Or conversely, if they're like, no, that's stupid, and you don't pursue it. And then like, what? Now I could have been, you know. And so I've had to learn to have a better understanding of what I need and what I need to ask and who I need to ask.

Gordon Sheppard (18:52.991)
I love this, I love your, cause this is putting in your reps in the leadership gym. Do you know what I mean? Like that's going through things, that's having false starts, that's having things where you know it wasn't aligned and getting to your then leveling up where you're at now to again, have the muscle to be able to be confident in yourself. And that really reflects a strong growth and development attitude that you probably had along the way and then getting to this moment. Is that fair?

Matt Aubin (18:58.509)
Yeah, for sure.

Matt Aubin (19:15.948)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah, yeah. For sure. Definitely. Yeah. And I mean, it's always an evolution too, right? Like, I think how I pursue things is always changing. Yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (19:20.053)
Wonderful. And so.

Yeah, because there's going to be another level to this because you're on, you're one of those guys, I'm guessing is not retiring anytime soon in terms of just your, you're, you know, you've got the joy for all these things that you do. So that's actually going to go on for a long time. think about Jimmy Patterson out there in the West coast, 90, whatever 90 and change and all those things that he's done over the years. The, well, yeah, no kidding.

Matt Aubin (19:30.062)
Definitely not. I do, yeah.

Matt Aubin (19:38.658)
Yeah.

Well, thanks for comparing. I'll take the G-repex comparison. Yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (19:45.176)
You'll take the Jimmy Pattison anytime. So we've got a strategy sort of work plan. There's some people, any people that we need to mention in this and that we may not have mentioned? Any other ones that you, I don't mean to say that we're to get them all, but any one or two that you think are part of this?

Matt Aubin (19:52.915)
for sure. Yeah.

No, no. Yeah, no, for sure. Like, I mean, if I think about different support systems and people over the years, I mean, obviously, I think, you know, my like wife and family have been, you know, hugely amazing and supportive. I, you know, the, you know, certain business partners I've had the team that, you know, we have some wonderful people at Keene right now that are able to run that business. So I'm able to pursue other things. And I mean, that's incredible.

Um, just, yeah. And then, and then, you know, I'll say surrounding myself with, um, like I'm fortunate to be a part of, of EO and EO Edmonton. And so, um, just that community, um, so there's about 150 entrepreneurs and specifically my forum group. So, um, we're called the EO Mavericks. And so that, that group has been, um, just absolutely huge in, in helping me to grow, um, to be a better, you know, I'll say like,

a better leader, better business owner, a better entrepreneur, a better husband, a better human, a better dad, like all of the things. so.

Gordon Sheppard (21:01.719)
Well, and just take me inside that for a moment because a lot of people listening don't necessarily know about peer support that you're talking about. And so there would have been a moment before you were like, should I get into, you I'm an owner, should I get into getting into a peer group? Tell me just, you don't need to take the curtain fully aside. But if you were talking to another owner who maybe doesn't understand what you've just explained so eloquently, what would you do to encourage them to at least kick the tires on? you know, what is it, why would you encourage them?

Matt Aubin (21:06.883)
Yeah.

Matt Aubin (21:13.272)
For sure. Yeah.

Yep.

Matt Aubin (21:22.636)
Yeah, yeah. Thanks.

Matt Aubin (21:29.782)
Yeah, I think and maybe I'll reflect. mean, like so let's say EO. So EO is as entrepreneurs organization. So there's chapters, you know, all around the world. I've really I've been a part of that organization for the last, you know, 13 years or so. I wish I would have started significantly earlier. And so I had others that are trying, you know, we're like, hey, you should really explore this EO thing. And I was like, like, I don't need that. I don't know what you're talking about.

All those, like, I don't understand, like, I don't need to buy friends. Like, my impression was that that was the case. You know, but the moment, again, like the moment I said yes, and was just open to the thought of joining, just like, it really encouraged exponential growth for me. And even just, you know,

So through that organization, I had the opportunity to be on their board. And so was on the board for seven years and I ended my term as president of that organization. And I think even to learn to lead leaders is something that, again, it's all about kind of growth. so I'm very grateful and very thankful to have had the opportunity.

And then just to meet some amazing other people and mentors through that program and yeah, it's incredible. yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (22:51.094)
Well, so if the wind's getting to say yes and go on these great road trips with all these different, you're on multiple road trips, it sounds like in terms of what you're doing. And then you get to meet these great people on the way. You've got this wonderful, you got a good supportive family in behind you. Do know what I mean? And that's its own sort of accomplishment in and of itself. And then you've got a good team you've built in business to be able to move out to these other ventures. So we've got a good sense of, again, strategy work plan, some of the people that are involved, and I'm sure we can go on and on about who they are, but then.

Matt Aubin (22:59.054)
could be.

Matt Aubin (23:14.402)
Yeah. Yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (23:16.49)
just got a good sense of what that is. the next step in the anatomy of the wind is to look sort of operationally. How do we operationalize saying yes? And we've heard a few of them already along the way. You're like, you know, I've got an idea. I can't get rid of this idea. I now have the confidence at this stage of where I'm at to be able to, yep, I'm going to put these ingredients in place, and I'm actually going to make that occur. When you're operationalizing a yes,

Matt Aubin (23:25.25)
boy.

Matt Aubin (23:38.35)
for sure. Yep.

Gordon Sheppard (23:40.808)
Are there, ways to do it? you have, I'm going to say, said, is it software? Is it a process? it a, what's, how would you describe the highlight of operationalizing?

Matt Aubin (23:48.406)
Yeah. Yeah. mean, you know, I think one, have to have a culture of yes. And so we've really tried to encourage that at Keen, at least two of just like, you know, saying yes has got us the opportunity to be where we are today. And so I want to encourage all of our team to think that way and, and to be, be open, like change can often be quite scary. And so, you know, I want to encourage people to be number one, just open to saying yes or exploring it.

And so the what ifs, think there's tons of power that comes into that. And then I think operationally, once it gets down to, we're going to pursue this thing or we're going to do that, what does that look like? Again, I think it really comes down to your point earlier of having some form of strategy around it, having some form of plan. How can we implement this in small aspects too?

you know, like I firmly believe too, and like, won't say from like a new venture side, but just in like the 1 % change. so, you know, sometimes just like changing 1 % of the business or 1 % of how we act with clients or is that a 3 % change or so, you know, I, I really do believe in exploring small changes that, you know, might seem small.

But in the end of the day, could be, you know, they add up and it's like, okay, well, also we've had 30 % of change this year. Well, that's pretty significant. And so sometimes just like looking at them from a more of a bite size component versus having to like, all right, have to like massively, we said yes to this thing and now we have to like go huge with it. It might be where we're just, you know, we need to test something, we need to try it. Let's try it with two clients or let's try it.

on this one project or how can we launch this successfully? And again, take data back and say, did that work? Was it good? Was it terrible? Should we ever do that again? Yes or no? Some of those things can be really impactful.

Gordon Sheppard (25:53.717)
And you've built the lab, you know, in a sense to be able to go and make these 1 % tweaks along the way. Like you've got enough of a playground of sorts in these different places where you've built that out, where you can try it on. The interesting thing earlier on when you were talking about, well, what is a win? You said that right at the beginning of conversation and that comes up for me a lot. It's funny. I never define it for people. I'm like, well, what do you think it is? And they'll be like, well, you know, I, and it could be a big project and a big.

Matt Aubin (26:11.406)
Yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (26:16.798)
financial thing or it could be like we've been talking about these little incremental things along with it add up. And then what's nice that I'm hearing again in your experience is you know the value of a 1 % improvement. And so you would be able to really remind yourself and the team when you see it that that's actually progress if maybe they're not feeling it as much as along the way. Wow, strategy, work plan, people, operations. Finally, there's results, quantitative and qualitative results. Quantitatively.

Matt Aubin (26:34.19)
for sure. Yeah.

Matt Aubin (26:40.644)
Yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (26:41.332)
Yes, what do you say, what can you publicly say out loud maybe about, and I'm not trying to get into your books or whatever, but what numbers do you like to talk about when you say, you know what, getting to yes is a win for me. I'm gonna say you've made a few dollars as a minimum, is it about empowering numbers of people? What are the concrete sort of quantitative things that you like to say?

Matt Aubin (26:46.978)
Yeah, yeah. goodness.

Matt Aubin (27:02.546)
boy, that's tough one. So yeah, like, I mean, obviously there can be, we could be tracking all kinds of KPIs, you know, things that might be, you know, I think it's easy to just point at like revenue or profit and are we growing in that manner? But is it like, hey, have we impacted lives? Have we grown people? Have we accomplished like, you know, I think through, through part of this, you know, one of the, I mean, to some extent, a business or an opportunity that we said yes to was,

was a nonprofit. so myself and a wonderful other entrepreneur, Luke Williamson and I, so Luke and I have started a nonprofit called Climbing for Change. And so, you know, the KPIs for that, it's like we've raised, you know, in the last two years, about $150,000 for local charities and continue to grow that and impact, you know, hundreds of people and hundreds of lives. you know, those can be, you know, hugely successful.

you know, KPIs and results to some extent. And so, you know, I think, you know, I really think about, to me, the results of things. if I think, so Keane has a core purpose. And so our core purpose is to create meaningful positive impact. And so to me, you know, that includes like that's growing our team, that is helping our clients, that's helping our community.

That is giving back. That is ensuring that we're still here to operate to provide, I think, a livelihood for our team. There's just so much that goes along with that. So a lot of the results for me are, are they aligned with our core purpose?

Gordon Sheppard (28:49.363)
Interesting to hear again, sorry, this resonating because it's not a rush to the bottom line. It's not a, you know what I mean? It's not a rush. What I can hear is the community, the people putting people first, getting that platform to give back. Wow, that's a great gift that you've created there. There's quantitative-ish results we're talking about, then qualitatively, how's this all feel in the end?

Matt Aubin (29:04.312)
Thanks.

Matt Aubin (29:10.286)
Yeah, like, I mean, I don't know, you know, I just, feel a ton of gratitude to be, you know, where I am and to have the opportunity to do what I get to do every day. Like, I think I'm, you know, I get to surround myself with a, wonderfully, you know, talented team, you know, and community and people around me. And so, yeah, I'm just, I'm extremely grateful for that.

I feel like often I feel like a bit of an imposter in certain places is because it's like, I don't think I'm doing the heavy lifting here. Like it's, you our teams that are, you know, I'm probably not the smartest guy in the room, but I've been able to, you know, hire some really amazing people that have really helped our businesses to grow and to do great things. so, yeah, I just, feel extremely grateful for that.

Gordon Sheppard (30:02.613)
Well, thank you for defining the win as the getting to yes to make such a rich conversation. It's not sort of a black and white conversation. It's so many shades to what we've talked about here that's led to a really positive result. And when I say Jimmy Patterson, I don't know if you're, you know what I mean? Like, I think you're on your way in terms of, you know, it's one thing to do one venture and lead one thing. It's another thing to get your going on those multiples. And then I loved your learning about your confidence in just yourself as a leader along the way about.

Matt Aubin (30:19.759)
Thanks.

Matt Aubin (30:29.71)
Thanks.

Gordon Sheppard (30:30.409)
trusting that inner voice and then validating that a long way. That takes time to really prove those out as you kind of go forward. Well, when I got great leaders on like you, I was off to make sure before you go, if you had another leader, you know, that you were having a chat with, and you had a few sentences to leave behind for another leader, what sort of things do you like to sort of say in just a few sentences?

Matt Aubin (30:36.686)
for sure.

Matt Aubin (30:42.926)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Aubin (30:49.0)
goodness. yeah, I don't know. mean, like a lot outside of this, like, I think the reality is, is, yeah, I think just, you know, surround yourself with amazing people. And, and I, and I think too, like just believing, having the belief that we can go further, that we can do more, that, you know, we have capacity to do hard things and, you know, and I think just being a good human.

Like, I'll say that I'm sure there's times in my career, my thought where it was like, oh man, we've gotten stepped on. And sometimes it looks like those other people who are stepping on us are getting further. But I think the reality is in the long run, just being a good human leads to wonderful things. so I, yeah, I don't know. And being authentically, you know.

A good person.

Gordon Sheppard (31:49.503)
Yeah, be a good human and we can do hard things. And there's a whole other podcast. I could talk to you for another 90 minutes about what's underneath that reality. And then again, I'm hearing grace, wonderful grace that you're able to come out and say, you know what, the best way forward through, cause those whoppers that you would describe along the way would have been pretty big stories along the way, but here you are now doing the right thing and making all these wonderful things happen. Well, Matt, thank you so much for being on the show.

Matt Aubin (32:08.984)
for sure.

Matt Aubin (32:12.718)
Thanks for having me on. I really do appreciate it. So thanks for the chat.