EW 059 – How To Build A Hundred Million Dollar Grocery Business That Puts People First – Winning with Teresa Spinelli, CEO of the Italian Centre Shop

Gordon Sheppard (00:00.854)
Teresa, welcome to the show. It is just so great to have you here because for a few reasons. One, cave cheese. I just have to say I've been to the Italian Centre and experienced cave cheese because of you and whatever you and your dad did to make this thing happen. I got to have my little moment in time when that occurred along with all the other wonderful visits that I've made to many of the locations that you have at the Italian Centre over time. also lucky enough recently to see you speak at an event.

Teresa Spinelli (00:03.17)
Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

Gordon Sheppard (00:30.11)
and took away memorable stories that I'm able to pass on about leadership and about a great leader in our community. So thank you so much for being so well-prepared for that event that I took so much out of seeing you speak there too. But there's gonna be a bunch of people that maybe just haven't met you quite yet. So if you had to introduce yourself, what would you say?

Teresa Spinelli (00:49.164)
Sure, my name is Teresa Spinelli. I'm the president of the Italian Centre Shop. The Italian Centre Shop was founded in 1955 by my dad and my mom. And I took over in the year 2000.

Gordon Sheppard (01:01.568)
This is not an easy takeover story. You know what I mean? There was dramatic moments in your family that occurred along the way. And also there's something about your father in this origin story that I heard you again talk about in the talk of the day. Here's a fellow that, you know, I think I was reading on your website there. He came to go to be a minor and then an injury changed that. And take me a little bit along the story of the origin of the Italian center, please.

Teresa Spinelli (01:24.78)
Yeah, so my dad immigrated to Canada and he went to work in the Yukon mines and he unfortunately broke his back there. So from there he got shipped to Edmonton because it was the closest hospital and it was an Indigenous hospital at the time, Charles Kamisla Hospital here in Edmonton. He spent the next year and a half in traction. My dad was a really, really big man and just because of his stature people would obviously go to him and ask him for help and people would ask him what was happening in Italy because they didn't understand English very well, they didn't have TVs or radios and my dad started telling

telling them a little bit about what was happening in Italy. And then my dad started to import Italian newspapers and even though the newspapers were four months old, people were so happy to read in their native language what was happening. And then they said, this is great, but you know, we really don't have any espresso in Alberta. So my dad started to import espresso. So now people had their paper, they had their espresso, their coffee. And then they said, you know what, we're looking for some olive oil. Like what's this canola stuff? We really want some olive oil. So my dad started to import olive oil and today we have over 30,000 types of

products really that's how it started.

Gordon Sheppard (02:26.869)
Well, and you should have security guards buy those olive oil displays. I've seen them and they just have the unbelievable selection, unbelievable sort of, you know, opportunities to sort of go up and down that this is in the sixties and the seventies. And as things evolve, you know, you started your, store expands. hear you were a little person running around that store yourself. Is that fair?

Teresa Spinelli (02:31.534)
Thanks

Teresa Spinelli (02:44.558)
Yep, absolutely, yes, I grew up in the story.

Gordon Sheppard (02:47.883)
grew up in the store and there's your dad and then there's a moment when the transition was supposed to occur. And so this occurred where was it your brother that was involved with sort of taking over and then what happened next?

Teresa Spinelli (02:55.66)
Yeah, so very traditional family, very traditional Italian family, so my brother was supposed to take over. Unfortunately, he died just before his 33rd birthday. And a couple of months later, my father was diagnosed with cancer. So that's how I ended up where I ended up, because really this wasn't part of my plan.

Gordon Sheppard (03:11.701)
This wasn't, what was your plan? Were you gonna be like a, what were you gonna be if you didn't do this?

Teresa Spinelli (03:15.502)
Well, I was thinking I was going be a social worker, to be honest with you. That's what I went to school for. was hoping that that's I was going to be. But then when I did it and I worked in the field, I didn't like it. I found it really, really difficult, difficult job. Thank God for those people that do that. But it is a very difficult, demanding job. And so I was just trying to figure it out. I was just trying to figure out what my next steps were.

Gordon Sheppard (03:34.069)
Well, and interesting that you would be sort of, I'm gonna say thrown into leadership. It's not like you were kind of getting ready for it in a sense. You thought it was gonna go a certain way and then we're getting, this is for leaders. Like we're gonna learn from you today as a leader and about one of your wins and this kind of thing. What was it like in those early days as a leader? And if you had to comment on how you've grown as a leader, how would you comment on that?

Teresa Spinelli (03:53.176)
Those days were really hard, really, really hard. know, obviously I was missing my brother, missing my dad, my mother was very depressed. I'd recently gotten married, couldn't have any kids. It was a very, very difficult time in my life. And I wasn't sure there was something that I wanted to do. So that's what made it really hard. Like I walk into a very, very busy store and instead of being happy, I wouldn't be happy. I'd be really mad because I knew I'd have to work really hard and I'd have to yell and scream to get people to do what I wanted to do. So I really had to do a lot of soul searching to find out what I was doing. Like was I living this life for my dad?

I wanted to make sure that I wasn't doing it just for him. I had to find something that I liked about it or I had to figure out what my next steps were.

Gordon Sheppard (04:32.459)
There's a moment when it clicked in for you, because you stuck in, you stuck with it. You didn't run away screaming kind of thing, like you kind of stayed with it. What was the moment or the year or the time when you were like, I want to do this for a while? What was that transition?

Teresa Spinelli (04:44.172)
I think it was kind of gradual. think that I was working with my employees side by side trying to learn about them and what they liked and what they wanted to do and where they saw themselves. And I wanted them to know that I was there to help them achieve their goals. And then I really realized that it wasn't about selling salami for me and it wasn't about selling olive oil. It really was about people. I just loved our people. We had a really great team and I loved our customers. I loved the people that came in and how was I going to share more of what we had. So I wasn't going anywhere. So my job was up for grabs.

How was I going to create a place where people can grow? So that's why we decided, okay, well we have to open up other stores if we want people to grow.

Gordon Sheppard (05:22.059)
Well, and fun to hear about your social work story origin in there. My sister worked 33 years in frontline social work in Montreal, and I always think I got my own master's degree listening to her on the phone over those years. And she was one those dedicated people, didn't have her own family, but she talks about the people that she helped in that same way that a proud mom would talk about, you know, the one in 10 that she really got over the finish line and made their lives better. But it sounds like you've applied the spirit.

Teresa Spinelli (05:40.224)
course.

Gordon Sheppard (05:47.251)
in a sense of some of that origin story that you would have had into investing in, I'm going to say yourself, your family, and the workers that you work with. Is that fair?

Teresa Spinelli (05:55.146)
Absolutely. Nothing like your sister, because that's an amazing job and God bless her. But yes, I did it at a different level for sure. And yeah, I feel that I make a difference in people's lives for sure.

Gordon Sheppard (06:06.485)
Well, and the impact now with the five stores, you the revenue you're generating, the opportunities that you're generating for your employee, the family that you've created, this wide expanded family that you've created is pretty remarkable. It gets me to my first question in the interview to say, you know, if you had to describe your biggest win in this journey, what would that win be and how would you describe it?

Teresa Spinelli (06:23.982)
Okay, so lots and lots of wins. The first one that comes to mind is, you my dad was the boss. He was a big man, biggest stature. He was the boss. It was his way or the highway. An incredible human being and you know, he could tell you where to go but five minutes later he's having a beer with you. You know, just one of those kind of personalities that people gravitate to. But he was the boss. My style of leadership is totally different. So when my dad was the boss, it was bottom up. It was like, you did it this way, didn't care what you thought, you did this way or get out, right? I'm the very opposite.

I really turned the company around from a top bottom to a bottom up organization. I obviously didn't do that by myself.

you have a really amazing team and then we had hired some professional consultants to help us turn that around. And what I learned about that was, so you know, so for the first 50 years, this is the analogy that we use, if you have a pond of fish and the fish die, do you blame the fish? So for 50 years at the Italian Sand Shop, we blame the fish. Stupid fish, get rid of the fish. Then you get a whole bunch of new fish in, they die. Stupid fish, get rid of the fish. And then...

We said, wow, what if it's not the fish? What if it's the pond? What if it's that department? What if it's that leader of that department? What if it's me? And that really changed the way we think, because I really believe that people, you can't motivate people, but you can put them in an environment where they motivate themselves.

Everybody goes to work to do a good job. Everybody. No one wants to swim the other way. Everybody's going to work to do the best that they can. They want to make a difference and know that they matter. That's what everybody wants. It's universal. So when we started really making decisions about people, so even if we make a decision that has nothing to do with Sally the cashier, we try to figure out how is that going to affect Sally the cashier? Well, how is it going to affect Sally? Even though it really has nothing to do with Sally, we try to picture what's going to happen to Sally if we make that change. And that's really made it

Teresa Spinelli (08:18.66)
big difference in our company, really, really big difference because our people are amazing.

Gordon Sheppard (08:24.021)
What if it's me? Isn't that remarkable? You would have, the model that you would have seen is what you're describing. Your father, he had a style, the style worked. You know what I mean? The business grew and it got established and did its thing. But you came in and you established your own style. That's its own internal voice thing. Like, were you confident with that style right away? Did you have to learn how to do that? How did that sort of come in that moment where you say, what if it's me? And then we're going to change the pond. Like we're taking responsibility for this. That's a big deal.

Teresa Spinelli (08:43.356)
Teresa Spinelli (08:48.718)
Big deal. It took a long time. It took a long time. Also because, you know, even if it is me, I want to be liked. So I don't want people not to like me. So I want to work around trying to figure out how can I be the best that I can be and yet help people grow.

you know, it's really important that people understand that I too have goals and dreams and their goals and dreams are different than mine but I want to make sure they knew I was there to achieve theirs. They weren't there to achieve mine but I wanted them to make sure so you know, I think I told this story on that night that you were listening about a guy named Paul, he was a 16 year old kid who wanted to work lots of hours because he wanted to buy a car and every time I saw Paul I would say, how's that car coming along? He'd get really excited and he worked twice as hard because that's why he was working.

because he wanted the money to build a car. That's what he wanted to do, right? So I made sure that he got enough hours so he could do that, right? So that was really, really great. So things like that all the time, right?

Gordon Sheppard (09:44.639)
And you would have dozens and dozens of stories. Do you know what I mean? Where these people have come through your world, you as a leader have had a chance to sort of help them grow up in the same way that you've had impact on your community, parks, all the kind of things around that as well. So if the win is this, we're gonna take it from top down and we're gonna go bottom up. If the win is, we're not gonna blame the fish anymore, we're actually gonna take a look at ourselves and take a hard look.

which then sets you up for that next level of success that you've gotten to at this point, which is pretty remarkable. I love then to say, we know what the win is, let's explore it using the anatomy of the win. Let's look at the strategy, the work plan, people, operations and results behind the win. So strategically, vision, mission, values, goals, what's the highlight from the strategy that you think made that win occur?

Teresa Spinelli (10:22.156)
Right.

Teresa Spinelli (10:30.328)
So I think our values are like...

growth, respect and loyalty. It's really important to us that we respect everybody that we and growing doesn't just mean a raise. It doesn't means a different job learning things in your current role. You know, we've got a really great CFO that really is really great at explaining financials. So if you work here, you're going to learn how to read a financial statement, all that stuff. So when you go to somewhere bigger, better, you're going to know that stuff. We've helped you. You've become a better person for being here and hopefully you've left the tiny shop a better place. Right. So there's lots of different ways to do that.

And again, I could tell you hundreds and hundreds of stories. It's really important that we all value each other, that we all care about each other, and that we're one big family.

Gordon Sheppard (11:11.56)
one big family and you back that up with ways that you actually treat people. there, did I hear profit sharing in your talk? Is that correct?

Teresa Spinelli (11:18.136)
Yes, yes, we've got a really great bonus plan for sure.

Gordon Sheppard (11:23.186)
And that's just one of those ways that when you're building a strategy around people, because you're doing this bottom up thing, we're not blaming the fish anymore, we're gonna get that as a big piece to go forward, which reflects our values. It's so fun when I hear leaders like you on this podcast say those values so quickly, because those words are not articulated right when you're growing up kind of thing. It's like, how did you actually find those three values and know that you could articulate them that well that you just just now?

Teresa Spinelli (11:48.28)
Well, we worked with a consulting group, like I said, that I hired to help us do that. They were really great. They're called Clear Impact. So they're a really, really great organization that was really instrumental in helping us do that, right? Or helping me become the kind of leader that I wanted to become and putting those things in place. So that's how really it happened.

Gordon Sheppard (12:07.326)
Maybe it's me, I'm gonna ask for help. That's interesting too, right? Was your dad someone to ask for help or did he kind of do it on his own?

Teresa Spinelli (12:12.942)
Never. No, never. My dad was a tough guy.

Gordon Sheppard (12:16.914)
And you were the one who was able to say, a second, I'm leading this. Maybe I need a hand along the way to do this and get this to go. So strategically, we know the values. We've heard some stories in there as well. Every time we had a strategy, we always need a work plan. There's sort of a timeline. And we're hearing this timeline. There was a moment in time when you didn't think you were going to be the leader. You became the leader. And what's that period of time then since you became the leader to now? Is that sort of a couple decades? What's the length of time?

Teresa Spinelli (12:40.174)
20 years,

Gordon Sheppard (12:41.93)
20 years in the making and if we actually hit the highlights along that timeline, we would see these growth moments. You're like, wait a second, I'm come in, I'm gonna be a mad person who's just trying to get people to, you with the whip and no carrot for you. And there's something about that, but that's, it wears you out, right? You go home at night and you're unhappy, you're not popular, you're going. So that lived experience pretty tough in terms of that early leadership style.

Teresa Spinelli (12:57.119)
yeah, can't do that. For sure. For sure. For sure.

Gordon Sheppard (13:02.804)
Then we go on to these next moments where you're like, well, I'm get some help. I'm gonna actually take some inputs from other places to actually grow along the way. Any other highlights in terms of your own leadership development along that timeline that you say would be other major moments that help you to become who you are today?

Teresa Spinelli (13:16.654)
I think that just listening and learning, right? I was learning. I was learning what my style of leadership was going to be. I was learning who to trust, who to listen to. I I read lots of business books. I listened to podcasts. did, you know, and I still to this day try to do some self-development course just to get to be a better person and some business course, all those kinds of things all the time to get even better because you can always learn something, right? So I love to learn and when I learn something I like to share with my team. Sometimes it doesn't go over very well, but at least I

tried. Yeah, so that's what we do.

Gordon Sheppard (13:50.216)
It's fun and just, don't know, I don't mean to put you on the spot. Any books that you recommend, moments along the way that you can recall? I don't mean to get you stuck, but is it...

Teresa Spinelli (13:57.134)
Yeah, no, no worries. So the very first book that I really loved was from from good to great because I had a really good business, but I wanted to make it a great business. And that was a really great book. I learned in that book that you have to have the right people on the bus. And not only did you have to have the right people on the right on the bus, you have to have them in the right seats on the bus. So I have the right people. Yeah. Yeah, so great.

Gordon Sheppard (14:16.508)
I love that, I love that. I'm so glad you brought that one up. It's in all the literature and that thing of, and isn't that remarkable? Cause you did walk into a good business, right? And then the mindset that it takes to level that thing up. I met, was it the, just this idea of if people are in the wrong seats, you would have had early days where they've got to get moved around or moved off the bus. Did you go through that as well?

Teresa Spinelli (14:23.639)
Very good.

Teresa Spinelli (14:34.754)
Yes, absolutely. Yes, unfortunately, yes. I didn't move them off the bus. They chose to leave the bus because they didn't like the direction that it was going. And that's okay, too.

Gordon Sheppard (14:41.758)
Yeah, yeah, this sort of, if we mix our metaphors now, we've got a pond of fish on a bus that's going in a direction that that fish, we can't blame them anymore. That's so fun. That's, yeah, that's the idea. And so lifelong learner meets the social work background in a sense, but coming into leadership and wanting to be there, because we turn the corner, we learn that on the timeline along the way. And so again, strategy, work plan, anytime we have a win like this, there's people involved. If you had to describe on that timeline your attitude, and we've heard a little bit about it.

throughout this journey. heard yelling and maybe negative in the early days. How would you describe the peaks and valleys of your own attitude through this journey on those couple decades?

Teresa Spinelli (15:16.622)
You're safe.

Teresa Spinelli (15:21.314)
Well, again, it was really tough, right? was a woman. Most of the people that worked here were men. They were very loyal to my dad. And again, my dad was an amazing human. So they were very, very loyal to him. So they thought of me as a spoiled kid that used to play cashier. So taking direction from a spoiled brat, let alone a woman, was very difficult for them. And it was difficult for me, too. So that was a really trying time. And again, I worked really hard beside them. I wanted them to know that I was on their side. Some people didn't see it that way. Some people didn't.

didn't see that way.

So was hard, it was really hard. I always say that men apologize for their weaknesses. As women, we apologize for our strengths. I had to say, hey, we're gonna do this and I'm gonna listen to whatever you have to say, but we are gonna move forward on this. And you're gonna have to, I'm gonna listen, I wanna hear what you have to say. But this is what I think is best for the direction of our company. And so again, really hard, hard for me too, right? Because hard, it's hard for women to stand up for

what they believe. It's hard for Canadians in general to stand up for what they believe. So it's a cultural thing for sure. So it took a while and you lots of self-doubt too right because every time I made a change my team would think it was a stupid idea. They say oh your dad wouldn't have done that and all that. So lots of self-doubt. So just getting clear about what I wanted but I kept focusing on what I wanted. I knew that I wanted a really good team. I knew that I wanted them to work in a place where they're motivated themselves. That they were given recognition for what they did. So that

what I wanted to do. I just kept focusing on that. So every decision that I made I focused on that.

Gordon Sheppard (16:59.626)
If people only listen to the last minute and a half of what you've just said, that is a huge gift. I can tell you on the executive coaching side, having dealt with super senior leaders who are women, this inner voice piece that we carry just for being female, this inner voice piece, I'm going to say in the Italian culture as the Italian culture evolves. So we've got gender, culture, and you've sort of, in a sense, pioneered through all that along the way because you didn't stop. Do you know what mean? There's something in you about the grit and thank you for that saying of...

Teresa Spinelli (17:24.43)
keep you guys.

Gordon Sheppard (17:28.594)
apologize for strengths, because I'm gonna guess that the women leaders are hearing you and they're like, yep, I kind of get it completely. I don't know if the guys will resonate with it as much, but isn't that a great way to look at it because it's lived experience where you've seen that. At some point, you would have had to gain confidence in your strengths. You know what I mean? Where you're getting more often, you're like, you know what? Yeah, no, we're doing this kind of thing. early days, can you describe any one of those moments, were there defining moments along the way where you had to say, no, we're actually gonna get this done even if you were uncertain and you actually pulled that off?

Teresa Spinelli (17:46.85)
Yep.

Teresa Spinelli (17:58.05)
Well then when it turned out good...

You know, I always follow my gut. think that that's another thing that we should do as leaders is really listen to your gut because I mean I listen to everybody I take everybody's perspectives but the end I just I make the decision and I can't blame anybody if it goes wrong and Then when one of your dreams starts to come true you start to believe the other ones right? wow. I did that Wow, okay, then let me try this and you keep doing those kind of things The other thing that was really helpful for me and I would recommend to anybody is to join a business group people that think like business owners Like I my husband was really really great

you he always wants to fix things. If something goes wrong, he wants to fix it. And if I don't take his suggestion, it just causes lots of havoc and lots of arguments. And my friends are all really great and really smart, but none of them are business owners. And business owners think differently. So it's really good to be in a room of people. And whether you have a million dollar company or a hundred million dollar company, the issues are all the same, right? Staffing, cashflow, they're all the same. So really, once I did that, I joined a group and it was an amazing group. I learned so much from that group. So, so much. So, so grateful for that time.

Gordon Sheppard (18:59.241)
I love going back to there's a moment in there on that timeline where you said, maybe it's me. And then you bolted in, this is smart leadership, right? That you had the humility to bolt in the pieces along the way. I got a consulting team in for this one moment in time. I wanted to be a better leader. I read the books and I bolted that in and I learned and I applied what I learned from the books as well. I also then did a smart move and, you know, learn from peers along the way. And that was sort of a gift along the way. And you can hear yourself graduating through some of those things. You know I mean? As you, as you're leveling up your leadership,

Teresa Spinelli (19:16.738)
Yes.

Gordon Sheppard (19:29.107)
through that timeline, that's pretty remarkable. There's always other people involved in a win. If you had to talk about some of the other key players that were key players along the way and their attitudes, who would you sort of bring into play here to tell some of this story?

Teresa Spinelli (19:33.186)
Yes, of course.

Teresa Spinelli (19:42.414)
Oh, good question. I don't know. So my team is amazing, right? Like when I got my team together, you asked really good questions, Gordon, really, really good questions. When I got my team to like once I decided that I was staying and I was going to do this business, I got the cream of the crop kind of thing. And I said we had a meeting and we had a facilitator that helped us get clear about what our goal was going to be. Right. So at that time,

Like I said, $8 million in sales, about 30 employees. And that team came up with this really great vision for Italian Sand Shop. And you can imagine, we didn't have any job descriptions, we didn't have HR, we didn't have any benefits, we didn't have anything. It was chaos every day. And yet they came up with the vision of something to be effective. We're gonna grow Italian Sand Shop into multiple location, exceeding customers' expectations and integrity. And I'm in the back of room going, all these people are crazy, like so crazy. Like one day, maybe 10 years from now, but it's so crazy.

Like there's so much to do before we get to that. And you know, we had that visioning workshop February 6, 2005. And July 18, 2006, we opened our second location. That wasn't me. That wasn't me. That was all me.

Gordon Sheppard (20:59.037)
Right? But so I'm just gonna say, as you were looking in there, you were the person that put them in the room. Do you know what mean? Like, let's say that was your co- and thank you for telling the reality of that whispered part, because you're the face of it and you live and die on that meeting too, because that meeting could have gone a different way. The other thing is you're in retail. Retail expansion, unbelievable. Like when I look, like one of your competitors just went down in the marketplace here where they, whatever, too far, too fast.

Teresa Spinelli (21:16.311)
of

Gordon Sheppard (21:27.109)
never had this organic 50 years of growth, you where you had your established base to work from. But it's one thing to go from, it's one thing to, you know, get one other location to occur, but these are all leveling up moments. We could follow this by revenue if we wanted to, and you just said it, we're in the single digit millions, we're this much, we don't have our processes in place, and someone's saying, wait, we're having this great, cool meeting, let's scale up, and you did it within less than 14, 15.

Teresa Spinelli (21:50.67)
18 months at the U.S., 18 months.

Gordon Sheppard (21:52.234)
18 months to go to that second scale up and then we could start to get on the timeline and see, wait a second, when was location number three? When's number four? When's number five? And I heard number six is in play now too. Is that fair? How's that feel to see that kind of, you you've got this team together. How's it feel to see that occur?

Teresa Spinelli (22:02.158)
Yep.

Teresa Spinelli (22:09.708)
very humbling, know, I'm very, very grateful because if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't be where we are, right? I'm very, very clear about that, like not one day goes by that I don't know that. And I hopefully tell them enough times that they know that, right? It's just really amazing when you get out of the way what people do, right?

Gordon Sheppard (22:26.645)
So many leaders that are coming on here saying they don't want to be the smartest person in the room. How lucky, yeah, and how lucky that you were able to assemble this A-Team along the way and we can hear again this growth that's there. I'm going to say somewhere in there there's your family, there's naming places after kids, and all that sort of joy that you've brought to the community for the story that has built from when your dad got going all the way to you and the through line and the smiles that come on people's faces and please.

Teresa Spinelli (22:30.382)
That's right, hire people that are smarter.

Teresa Spinelli (22:41.07)
comes.

Gordon Sheppard (22:52.327)
Let me just go and stand outside that bake shop in your different stores and just simply admire the artwork that I see there. I never see anything that's out of place. It really speaks to what level you've brought it to that there's pride in work coming through these workers. And again, we would go on and on about the stories there. Strategy, work plan, people. There's always operations as a contributing factor to success. And we're going bottom up then as the win. And then we've made all this occur up to this five locations going on six and who knows.

Teresa Spinelli (23:06.978)
Thank you, man.

Gordon Sheppard (23:20.489)
I don't even know what your ambitions are, but who knows how far that will go. What I'm saying is operationally, you said, hey, wait a second, we were at a certain moment, we weren't organized. Do you know what I mean? And then we had to get organized. And as you level up, doesn't matter if it's 10 million, 100 million, there's different requirements in operations over time. What were some of the operational highlights that allowed you to be successful that you think, was it getting processes down, people onboarding, offboarding? What were some of the highlights along the way that allowed this to occur?

Teresa Spinelli (23:47.25)
well for sure. Well first you have to listen to your people. That was key, right? Listening to what they wanted. So, you know, they wanted benefits, they wanted this, they wanted better track, whatever it was. So, and I listened to them and I did whatever I could to do what they needed in order to grow. My job is to give them all the tools they need to grow. So once they have all the tools, the rest is up to them and magic really happens. So that's really, really important. And then,

just always stay focused on people, right? It's always about people. So what can we do to grow people? How are we going to get them to do even better? The other book that I really love is Danny Meyer's book called A Seat at the Table. So amazing, such a great book. Because I learned from that book, the better we treat our team, the better they treat the customers, right? So important. It's just the way it goes. So I love that. Really, really amazing. And your team really

the atmosphere why people come to you, right? Why your business succeeds. Again, hundreds of stories of how my team did something that just went over and above. Little, little, little things though. They're not major things. They're little things, but people are so appreciative of that. People always say the Italian Centre Shop is my favorite store. Well, you can't argue with favorite, right? We're not the cheapest store. We're not the best store. We don't have the best products, but we are their favorite store. And that's unarguable, and that's really, really

a big compliment to me and my team.

Gordon Sheppard (25:17.747)
Well, and I'll just go back to when I, the Christmas stockings that in my family now, I go to the Italian, this is a true story. I go to the Italian center by myself sometime in December, and I go and find these crazy, I don't know how you get all those skews into one place, but you're doing something again where I want to go there to that destination to find that. The other thing that I'm going to comment as a customer is the confidence that your employees have. don't see, there's nobody disheveled. Do you know what I mean? And there's nobody who's trying to be overly sappy either. They're just confident.

people, it is my impression, where they're doing their job and that makes a ton of sense from what we're talking about from the flow through that you're doing along the way. How is it that you've been able to grow the variety of choices in there? Like again, operationally, like how do you, how have you been able to get this product selection in there? Any insights there?

Teresa Spinelli (26:05.768)
We listen. We listen to people. So our customers would say, you know, I'm looking for this. So if somebody's looking for that vanilla bean, there must be somebody else looking for it too. Or try staying top of trends, you know, if someone's talking about something on a food channel, you know that people are to be looking for it. So those kind of things. And the other thing, the other story that I like to share, if I may, is, know, for example, we sell tons and tons of Polish chocolate in our store. Like we carry, we're one of the rarest stores that carries chocolate all year round, like not just at Christmas, Easter and Valentine's.

you around and so I love chocolate start to eat it yeah that's okay so I started asking people why are you eating this chocolate they say so good I go no tell me why is it the price point is it the color of the packaging and all the stories were the same we were a poor family this bar this chocolate bar has eight bars my mom would give us one bar each

My grandma would make the soup and she would sing it sing to me while she was making the soup. It was always about comfort and about family and about connection. And you know just a little while ago here at the store there was a family shopping they saw a drink. They're not Brazilian but they saw a product from Brazil and they'd gone on holidays to Brazil and they got so excited because they saw that product because it reminded them of their family holiday together when they drank that drink, right? Something so...

Nothing, it's just about connection and about people and about that warmth and those memories, right? And once I told that story somewhere and there's a young lady who agreed with me that Polish chocolate wasn't good and she was with her mom, but a hundred bucks says that when she's 30, she's going to be buying that chocolate for her kids because it's going to remind her of her mom. It's incredible.

Gordon Sheppard (27:40.233)
The, thank you so much for your authenticity and lighting up at the stories that you light up about, right? The fellow, the young kid buying his car that you got to help. You know what I mean? This sort of flow through a family. So while your business does grow, that temptation and growth is to lose touch with some of these stories as we get bigger and we get bigger operations. But I can hear the glue that you're bringing to it by being able to flow those stories through along the way. That's so lucky strategy, work plan.

operations, we've talked about a few highlights in there. Finally there's results, there's always quantitative and qualitative results. Quantitatively I'm not, I don't mean to crack open your books, your revenue has grown and you've got five stores and you can talk about maybe even number of employees. Any quantitative highlights that you'd like to share publicly?

Teresa Spinelli (28:22.542)
Yeah, sure. like I said, when I started, we were $8 million in sales and 30 employees. Today we're 751 employees and $140 million in sales. And again, I didn't do that. And that was like in 20 years. So that's a lot of growth for a little company that wasn't sure where it was going. And again, I didn't do it. It was really my amazing team that made that happen.

Gordon Sheppard (28:45.032)
Well, and how lucky there's some, so funny though, but where the responsibility lands, like you were saying in those early days, it still does land with you. I know you've been humble and it's funny enough, I would say in elbows up time, we need a little bit less humility in Canada these days because there's some superstar qualities that I'm, I've interviewed over 50 leaders on this show already and they've all got these superstar qualities that simply the world needs to know.

Teresa Spinelli (28:57.87)
Yes.

Gordon Sheppard (29:08.196)
more about. You're reminding me as you're bringing up this great literature, there's a fellow on who's name is Randy Vaughn, again another well-read leader, you'd have a great conversation with him. He said be the river, not the reservoir. And this is what I'm hearing that you're doing in your style. You're allowing the flow of stories and ideas and talent to come through the vehicle that you've had and expanded to allow these things to occur. Any qualitative highlights? Like how does it feel like when you sit here at this moment? Like how's it feel to have this achievement?

Teresa Spinelli (29:26.608)
you

Teresa Spinelli (29:36.014)
It's really great. You know, I have to tell you that when I go, in particular to my sales store, I don't know why particular that store happens the most, but when I go to that store, customers stop me and they thank me for having a store.

I've never heard of such a weird thing. I cried. The first couple of times I would just cry. I'd my god, you're thanking me for having a store. I'm here because you're here. If you weren't here, I would not be here. But they really are so, so grateful for the opportunity to come there. know, Italian Sand Shop exists to create community through food and cultural experiences. That's really why we exist, to create community. Yes, we sell pasta, we sell olive oil, but really we create community. And you can feel that when you're in our stores. The people here feel very, very attached to me,

our team. You know, if you are regular here, our cashier knows your name, they know if you've got somebody sick at home and they'll ask you about it. And I don't make them do that. That just comes naturally. You know, they just really, really care. Right. So it's very humbling. Like really when somebody stops me and thanks me for having the store, I'm like, my God, like that's amazing. Right. Like that's just absolutely amazing. And you know, and I love sharing my story because everybody, including you has a great story and we need to hear those stories because the more we hear those stories, the more

First of all, we appreciate each other more and we learn from them, right? Like just the story like you told about the reservoir and the river, that's an amazing story, you know? So really great. So again, thank you for what you do because I only listen to a couple of podcasts, but I will listen to the next ones when I get a chance, but really, really good stuff and really, really appreciate giving the opportunity to share.

Gordon Sheppard (31:07.356)
Well, it's great to have you here. And again, I just get lucky because I get to share all these stories around now and move this leadership capacity around. I'm starting to, funny enough, I'm starting to introduce leaders that I'm meeting on this show now. Do you know, you're a water expert. And do know that person is a water expert? And you're consulting to the city of Los Angeles. Do you know this? And just starting to put that together because, again, I think we're in a time where we can't hold back.

Teresa Spinelli (31:22.871)
it for you.

Gordon Sheppard (31:31.421)
the good stuff anymore and that aw shucks stuff is, was good for 20 years ago maybe, but maybe not so much now. So isn't that lucky that we got to hear this bottom up story. Thank you for putting in the reps that you sound so eloquent. Do know what I mean? Cause the sleepless nights and what does it take and all those things that you would have on the other side of that full story that goes together on your way to your sixth location. And I don't even know what the aspirations are, but there's going to be another one of those meetings. It sounds like where you're in the back of the room with a bunch of smart people and who knows how far that growth formula is going to take you.

Teresa Spinelli (31:44.078)
Thank you.

Teresa Spinelli (31:56.014)
comfort. Yes, for sure.

Gordon Sheppard (32:01.124)
Anytime I have leaders like you on the show, I like to sort of say as we kind of get out of here, if you had to have a few sentences for another leader along the way and you could pass along a bit of wisdom, what sort of would you tell another leader?

Teresa Spinelli (32:14.847)
if it's a new leader and a new role as a leader, and I think I shared this also.

when I spoke at Insure Park the other day, don't listen to those birds, those big white birds that fly around all day eating garbage and then try to shit on you. The seagulls, don't listen to the seagulls. Because it's really hard, right? It's really hard being an entrepreneur. It's not easy. It's not easy. And there is lots of sleepless nights. there is lots of doubt. You already have your own doubts, let alone other people that are shitting on you, for lack of better word. It's hard. It's really hard. But you have to just really be clear about what you want. And the clearer you are,

the road gets. And of course you have to have passion, right? If you don't have passion, you won't get very far. With passion, then it's like gassing your car, right? It may get you to where you want to go.

Gordon Sheppard (33:01.65)
Well, you know what, thank you so much for taking the time to share your stories, doing what you do, and being honestly a beacon. think, you know, whenever your name comes up in a conversation, I was telling my wife, was like, I get to interview Teresa, and my wife buys, sorry, I was just thinking about your story. It's the Italian Centre, but like we've heard, it's for the world. I heard Poland, and I heard Greece, and my wife is celiac, and there's more.

Teresa Spinelli (33:21.773)
That's very good.

Teresa Spinelli (33:25.801)
yeah, lots of people.

Gordon Sheppard (33:26.264)
celiac choices in terms of gluten-free at your store that you wouldn't, it's counterintuitive to think that that would occur, but look at you listening to the market and again feeding the market along the way. So thank you for doing what you do, being that lived example that we can learn from, learning from your experience here today, especially for the women leaders that pick up on some of those really true insights that you brought. Thank you so much for being on the show.

Teresa Spinelli (33:46.22)
Well, thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. Really, really appreciate it, Gordon. It means a lot to me. Thank you.