EW 053 – How To Lead A Truck Body Manufacturing Company Through Major Changes To Become More Profitable – Winning With Scott Cassels, President of General Body and Equipment

Gordon Sheppard (00:01.132)
Scott, welcome to the show.

Scott Cassels (00:04.014)
Thank you.

Gordon Sheppard (00:05.776)
It's so good to have you here. I got to see you receive an award for the work that you do. And I remember when you received the award, it wasn't just about the achievements that you had, but it was about you really acknowledging the people that are working with you as well. It was so impressive to see what was happening there. And it was just great to see you there up there on the stage at the Business Leader Awards. And that sort of prompted me to reach out and say, hey, you know, maybe we got a chance here to record one of your wins and share that.

along with people, but there's gonna be a lot of people here that haven't met you just yet. So if you had to introduce yourself, what would you say?

Scott Cassels (00:38.73)
Sure, my name is Scott Castles. I'm the president of General Body and Equipment here in Edmonton. We are a custom truck body manufacturer, work truck manufacturer. I frequently refer to us as one of the biggest companies you've probably never heard of, but you've definitely seen our product out on the road.

Gordon Sheppard (01:01.934)
And I think we're gonna hear a lot about why you're the biggest today. You know what I mean? Like there's some risk involved here, especially with investments that you've made internally. We learned in the pre-interview that we're gonna hear a little bit about there too. In terms of how long have you been in that president role and just maybe a little bit about yourself and maybe just talk a little bit about your style and that kind of thing. That'd be great.

Scott Cassels (01:23.254)
Sure, it's about 12 years, just over 12 years now that I've been in the role of president here at General Body. I guess if you were to describe my leadership style, it's that I try my best to put a good quality team together, talented individuals that bring skills to the table that I don't necessarily have or excel at.

give them the bandwidth and the roadway to use those skills and to build up our group as a team, as a collective.

Gordon Sheppard (02:02.288)
You're reminding me of a fellow we had on his name is Bill Shi and he said, if I'm the smartest person in the room, I'm in the wrong room. Is that fair?

Scott Cassels (02:08.814)
Yeah, I wouldn't disagree with that. I know my limitations and try to find people to fill those gaps.

Gordon Sheppard (02:17.39)
Well, and you've done it. We're going to hear about your success story in terms of what that is. So it leads sort of right into our big question, which is if you had to describe your biggest win, and I'm sure there's many along the way, but if you had to describe your biggest win in the work that you've done in these years, what would that win be and how would you describe it?

Scott Cassels (02:33.582)
I think the biggest win that we've had, at least during my tenure, is the consolidation of our Edmonton operations into our current facility on 97th Street. We took an operation that had four separate buildings across a couple of city blocks in an industrial area that

We consolidated into one, just over 100,000 square foot facility that really helped to push our efficiencies forward and eliminate a lot of waste, if you wanted to put it that way. It was probably our biggest advancement in terms of efficiency and ability since I took over.

Gordon Sheppard (03:27.63)
Yeah, and you build truck bodies, right? So this is this thing of, wait a second, we've got, you you've got to, if I say assembly line, you know, not knowing your business fully, but there's things that need to get put together. And this opportunity to pull it together in one location, as opposed to having multi-locations, you understood sort of the reason why to do that. And when companies make big investments, and it's a big investment to move away from whatever scenario you were in before, because as companies scale,

This is one of those moments of like, wait a second, we could keep doing what we're doing, or we could actually make this big investment. was the, it helps me to jump in now to sort of structure the conversation in what I call the anatomy of the win. What is the strategy, the work plan, people operations and results behind it? Strategically, you've got these multi locations, you're doing your work, obviously the company's growing enough that you actually get to the point where you have the luxury or risk taking you're ready to do to make that decision to build one facility.

Like what was the strategy behind it if we talk about values, vision, mission, goals, that kind of thing?

Scott Cassels (04:28.226)
Yeah, the, I mean, it was, we identified it as a weakness or a source of waste early on when I took over. And so we started to work very early on to, I guess, align ourselves to be able to make this move. Unfortunately, the first time around, the leases we had set up on the existing four buildings were scattered across.

a variety of different termination dates and so, you know, extracting ourselves from those four buildings at the same time was impossible at that time. you know, upon the next renewals, we lined everything up. So our termination dates were the same on all the buildings. And we started the process there. You know, the next step was to prove to our ownership group that this

financially made sense that we were actually going to see some improvements in our efficiency by making these changes. And then the last hoop, unfortunately, we had to jump through was really taking that leap of faith because it ended up that all our leases that we had lined up to terminate terminated in the middle of COVID.

when things weren't spectacular from a business perspective.

Gordon Sheppard (05:59.473)
Isn't that crazy, right? So again, you know, isn't that remarkable? So you've got all your best intentions, do you know what I mean? Cause this is a multi-year rollout that you're talking about here. There's a moment, funny, it sounds like you were a champion of, you know, doing this approach. There's a moment when you're sitting with the owners. Like, yeah, I gotta have those conversations. What were those conversations like? Were they like, yay, let's spend some money on a new place? Or were they not excited? Like what was their sort of mindset around when you're bringing, you know, this forward?

Scott Cassels (06:27.766)
Yeah, it was a challenge. mean, we have three major shareholders that control the majority of our stake, I guess, or stocks. you know, largely I deal with those three in terms of these big decisions and getting approval for investment and that kind of thing. And so it was an interesting period of time because not

all three always agree on the approach. And so, you know, we had one side or one of the owners wanted to actually downsize at the time to shrink the total footprint square footage. Another was on board with my idea to actually expand our footprint and get a little bit more square footage in this one, you know, location. And then one was in the middle. So it took a lot of

discussion and negotiation and you know at the end of the day it probably took us almost two years of searching with a realtor to find the appropriate building. You know certainly that ramped up closer to the date but we did start our search with working with a realtor about two years in advance to find the perfect building.

And the compromise we ended up on was essentially that we kept the same square footage. So we took, you know, when you added up the four buildings we had and combined them, we ended up actually with about 2,000 square feet less. So.

Gordon Sheppard (08:12.025)
Isn't that interesting? thank you so much for the insights into when we get big things done, certainly the leaders that are on this show and they're sharing those things, there's a lot to it, right? There's a cajoling early days of like, hey, I've got an idea, I've got it on the back of a napkin. And then it's like, wait a second, we're going to engage a realtor. it's going to cost a few bucks to get somebody to look around. And then we're going to kick the tires. And then we're going to think about, guess what?

We made the jump in that one step because the leases are coming up. We don't even have a home. We better do something about it. And we have all these mixed things as we go. And it sounds like a healthy ownership group that can challenge each other in a sense that do eventually come to consensus. It's not like they didn't come to consensus. They did. And even though someone's maybe not getting their way immediately, then you had to sort of prove out what that looks like. Isn't that interesting? So you recognized early on strategically, wait a second, we've got some inefficiencies.

I'm just going to say again, in manufacturing, if you're in multi-location, it's pretty obvious that efficiencies that would come from all kinds of things, whether it's building or awareness at the employee level about what the other hand is doing, we gain those things when we come into one space as you do it. So strategically, it was the right idea, and it was going to be a big investment to expand the business. That's the strategy that made it through all of what you just described. Is that fair?

Scott Cassels (09:26.734)
Correct, yeah, yeah, that would be the right analysis. mean, by eliminating waste, can get a more efficient output out of the same space, essentially, was what the final calculation ended up being, was can we do more with the same?

Gordon Sheppard (09:42.447)
Yeah, and then, and then lucky you and thanks and lucky you, thanks for going through the sleepless nights of COVID and you know what it takes to sort of stay in the game, right? Like we, like, you know, there's a few Haagen-Dazs ice cream days or others things that occurred during, you know what I mean? Like kind of get you through what are tough times in business as we kind of go through there too. So we hear strategically, wait a second, let's consolidate, let's get those efficiencies. Let's put ourselves in a position to grow. And that's a fascinating thing. And I can't, I'm amazed at how often things, again, when I speak with serious leaders like yourself,

take 10 years, 15 years, 20 years to really kind of dial it in. And I think we're in one of those stories here right now as we're in the middle of it. Love it. So here strategically, kind of what's going on. You got this new place built. It's 2,000 square feet less, but now it's all in one place. We heard a few things about the timeline. Took two years for the realtor to get started, kick around. And funny, there'd be ups and downs with that. Like they'd come back, they'd say, what about this? And you'd be like, that's not what I'm talking about. know, did that happen too?

Scott Cassels (10:41.718)
absolutely, yeah, we definitely looked at a few lemons, I guess you would say, when we were doing the search. We did have a great partner there that was patient and worked with us and really got to understand the essence of what we were looking for and then an opportunity came up that he got word of before it actually hit the market. Oddly enough, it was actually a customer of ours that was...

doing the opposite of what we were doing. were consolidating or downsizing their Edmonton operation from three buildings to one. And so one of their buildings was going to become available. And so we got a bit of a head start to take a look at a property that was becoming available. And we're able to get our foot in the door before anybody else really knew about it.

Not that during COVID the real estate market was exactly on fire, but we did get a bit of a head start and a heads up in advance.

Gordon Sheppard (11:48.539)
Well, and congratulations on having the tenacity to drive it through there. And it's funny, when I look at this moment in the conversation, we talk about the timeline, there was a moment when the leases weren't lined up, you were in four locations, you're manufacturing, you your truck bodies and you're doing your thing. And then there was a decision point in there to line up the leases. So if I go back to pre-line up the leases days, what year was that? And then what year did you line up the leases? And I'm just trying to get through the, how this kind of all came together on a timeline.

Scott Cassels (12:16.846)
Yes, like I said, I took the role over in 2013, no, early 2014, I guess it was when I officially got the title. So it was at that point that pretty early on I had identified that to be more efficient, to get more out of what we do and the labor force that we had, needed

consolidate. So it would have been early 2014 that we started to talk about this idea. The leases were lined up between 2016-2017 and then the search started really in about 2019 when we started talking to a realtor and then really ramped up in 2020.

made the move in early 2021. We were in the new building in May of 2021.

Gordon Sheppard (13:24.846)
with all the COVID protocols and the masking and the distancing, you know what I mean? Like all that stuff that would have been in play. Isn't that remarkable? Thank you for laying that out for us. Because we hear 2014, it's a concept. We hear the big things that need to occur through that time. We're in 2026 now in terms of what it takes to kind of get to this moment in time. But that foundationally would have been what leads to...

Scott Cassels (13:27.523)
Thank

Yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (13:47.729)
kind of get this to occur. Well, congratulations on getting that through. And it's amazing to me too, if we marked other moments along the timeline, we could talk about the financing requirements and those sort of commitments. We could talk about other major things along the timeline that kind of helped this to come together. But we've heard a few of them. We know the strategy. We know why we want this efficiency so we can set ourselves up for growth. The third step in the anatomy of a win is people. There's something we've heard about you in this timeline, it's 2014. And I love this one because I always say it.

you who are the key people and what were their attitudes? So if you had to look back, it's 2014, you're the new guy in a sense. How would you describe your attitude? know, was it easy street or peaks and valleys along the way? And how would you describe your attitude throughout that timeline that we've described?

Scott Cassels (14:21.439)
Yeah.

Scott Cassels (14:31.084)
Yeah, was, there was an evolution for sure in terms of people when we talk about the people and the culture that we have here in general. It was taking, I guess, family owned, family operated type of arrangement where the previous owners had worked with the guys in the shop. You know, there was a lot smaller.

group, I guess, to start with. It had started to grow by the time that I had come on board. And we were trying to really take the culture from a mom and pop type of operation, a family type of operation, to more of a corporate entity, more of a structured environment. One of the things that

we really had to tackle right off the bat was getting a schedule in place and finding accountability or driving home the accountability to that schedule that there was not just customers involved, was, to your point, finances involved and stakeholders involved that we now needed to be accountable to and could no longer.

approach things the same way. And so there was a period of time there where we really had to work on the culture and work on what we were trying to achieve and make sure we were bringing the right people forward in that regard. The other big element there was we really needed to start developing from within a little bit better leadership structure.

We, in the previous structure format, was, the business really was driven by that ownership group. They were involved in every aspect. They were a lot more hands-on than the format that we were going to. And largely because of the size, we could no longer rely on.

Scott Cassels (16:57.122)
that management by just a couple of people. needed to really start to allow some long-term employees, people that had been with us for many, many years, to take leadership roles and to take control of the groups that they were working with. And so that was a long-term process that needed to develop and was, I guess, running kind of concurrent to when we were...

trying to make these moves and change the business layout structurally.

Gordon Sheppard (17:31.076)
Well, congratulations. It's like doing culture at the same time that you're doing financing, at the same time that you're doing consolidation, right? So there's something interesting about you and that leadership role, because you're at the top of the pyramid there with accountability to the ownership group. You're in that squeeze position where you're in between, but you've got all these things running at the same time, which really speaks to your own leadership chops. That's a well-rounded perspective.

Scott Cassels (17:36.558)
Yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (17:57.712)
for being able to say, we got to do this. Plus you're transitioning from the family business. And it's amazing. The family businesses, go 20, 30 years. They grow up at a certain, there was a certain era when family businesses certainly in Alberta grew up and did well. And enough to be investable, like you said, with your ownership group coming at that time. But then you've got the hangover of, well, that's the way it was run before. And you're going to go through, and we could talk about attrition. I don't mean to pick on things. But then you said, no, wait a second. We've got a long view that we know we need to get this culture together.

to empower people at the leadership level to do that work. And I'm glad to hear you said it took patience and time because you can't flip the switch on those things. I think sometimes the folks that are on the acquiring side want things in that, whatever, that tight turnover or whatever. But in the meantime, this piece of empowering those internal leaders really, really, so we can already hear you in your leadership role, but you can't do it alone. Because how many people, how many employees at the time were we talking about that you were trying to make the change with?

Scott Cassels (18:27.747)
there.

Scott Cassels (18:55.63)
We were probably sitting at about 100 and 105 somewhere in that neighborhood.

Gordon Sheppard (19:03.117)
Yeah, and that's not that you can't wrangle that as sort of certainly as new guy as leader guide, you know, I mean, it might have been fine for the owner because he hired them all at the time, you know, and grew up over the decades with them. But at that time, then you're putting in a system. Talk about culture change. Did you actually did you put in a system? Was there a method methodology that you implemented or did you just sort of know that you needed to work on leadership and chip away? What was the way that you got that done?

Scott Cassels (19:26.09)
Yeah, was, I mean, we knew it wasn't going to be easy. knew it, excuse me, wasn't going to be quick. So we really did have to be patient and we had to take our time with it. You know, I think the first piece of the puzzle was putting some good leaders at the top alongside myself.

One, oddly enough, our operations manager here in Edmonton, our general manager for the Edmonton facility, is actually the son of one of the former owners. He had worked for the company while his family was involved in it and left. And then after we had taken over a couple of years,

after that transition had taken place he reached out and it's somebody that I've known I've known him most of my life actually reached out and indicated that he would be really interested in coming back and trying to be someone to help drive some changes through now that honestly now that his family was no longer involved in the company he didn't want to be part of it well

his family was part of it and so knowing that he knew the business well and he had the right type of character and personality that I would benefit from, brought him on board and the two of us really had to start chipping away at that to your point, the old culture, the old way of doing things and really try and change some mindsets along the way.

the patience that the two of us had was that we would gradually find ways to promote from within to bring some of the talent forward while at the same time, there is that, to your point, the attrition where you have to lose some of those people along the way as well. And so it was a slow process. It was something that we took our time with. We made sure we found the right people to keep.

Scott Cassels (21:53.11)
and to promote and also at the same time found the right people to trim and get rid of that were holding the culture back.

Gordon Sheppard (22:00.559)
Well, congratulations. Yeah, no, congratulations. And I'm glad to hear that, again, this patience, it speaks to your leadership style. Like it's, again, you can't flip this in, you know, I've dealt on the advisory side with helping folks to get through this. And that's the thing of how do things get done around here? You know what I mean? There's sort of institutional knowledge that you know you need to sort of bring forward. There would be certain relationships that you're gonna, some you keep, some you give away.

in of how you do that. But this is a sophisticated approach over time, which then speaks to also setting the stage for this consolidation that you were doing. Because again, we talked about financing, leasing. There's the building aspect of it. I mean, we could get into insurance and all kinds of, you know, all these other things you need to do. But the culture piece being a key driver to that expansion opportunity. And I, you know, and you actually got that done. Well, how nice to hear about some highlights from the people side. Congratulations on getting that done. We've heard strategy, work plan, people.

Operations, if we're gonna consolidate operations, there's some highlights in there for sure. Maybe we're bringing, I don't know, old equipment over, or we gotta buy some new equipment, or maybe we've gotta look at our processes and procedures. Maybe we gotta review our entire safety plan. There's all kinds of things operationally. Any highlights when you're putting four buildings into one that you'd like to point out for making that a win?

Scott Cassels (23:17.582)
Yeah, was definitely an opportunity where we took the chance to upgrade some machinery as well while we were at it. Certainly the biggest, I guess, technological or process-driven improvement was the elimination of the four different locations. To your point, earlier we finally were able to create

an assembly line of sorts. mean, what we do is custom. You know, we don't do the same thing on every job at every time. The trucks that we build are a variety of different sizes. So it's, you know, it's something that an assembly line in its traditional, I guess, visualization can it cannot be implemented. But to the best of our ability, we were now able to take our process, which

you know, involves about nine different departments, nine different steps, and streamline it to the best of our ability into an assembly line, you could call it, which we saw, you know, massive improvements on the efficiency as a result. I mean, that exceeded what we had modeled out from, you know, to try and find a metric.

that we could refer back to when we were trying to measure the sufficiency because of the challenges of the different sizes and pieces and styles of equipment that we build from a custom perspective. You know, we had settled on really a revenue per man hour type of metric as a real simple way to look at

whether or not our efficiency had actually changed. And part of that challenge also was that when we first made the move, we were in the midst of a massive downturn because of COVID. And so we couldn't really analyze whether or not those efficiencies had been found until business returned to normal, so to speak.

Scott Cassels (25:41.646)
And what we did find, you know, at least we believed in the whole time that would happen was by the time we hit our fiscal year 23, we had seen about a 22 % increase in our revenue per man hour. And that was kind of the first year where we felt our numbers, our volume had returned to that pre-COVID level.

you know, we took that leap of faith and unfortunately it took longer than we wanted to prove it to everybody that we had found that efficiency that we were seeking. And so it was to your point some sleepless nights during that period of time trying to figure out if we had actually done the right thing and if, you know, what we had invested in and pushed for.

was actually going to pay off and so when it finally did, certainly I was excited. Two out of three of our owners were excited. The third needed some metrics, some proof, some numbers to prove it. And that's something that we still go back and forth on trying to find the right metric to prove that we've...

gone the right direction but you know at the end of day the numbers are playing out the way that we want them to and so everybody's happy.

Gordon Sheppard (27:15.286)
Love it. And thank you for that really good explanation. You're giving us the roadmap for the thinking that's involved, the patience that's involved, those multiple conversations. Because there's everyone, there's all different people getting discomfort at certain points. There's excitement at certain points along those ways, right? You've got all those moments. There's a lot of dinners that are happy dinners and not happy dinners. in that, because you're talking about this multi-year period and then you're like,

Scott Cassels (27:36.376)
Yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (27:38.479)
you kind of get to breathe in because you're making this move in whatever 2021-ish than there. And then it's 2023 by the time you're like, oh, now we can see our metrics paying off. Isn't that talk about really the grit that it takes to, especially to be in manufacturing in Western Canada and then exporting, you know, I'm sure for all across, I'm assuming North America and the world for where you get your stuff out to, but that piece of, you know, having the vision stick.

the stick-to-itiveness of it, and then what does it take to kind of get through? That's really valuable the way you've described it. And again, we can hear the full story in what could be probably a 40-hour conversation if we really kind of broke it out and did all the different things that are in there. Operation, that's funny. It's funny about thinking even about parts. You know what mean? One thing to run from one shop to the other to get a part. And, know, it's tough to measure. And then crazy enough, the AI needs now, which want more data going forward, you'd be in a way better position in the one location to be ready for

Scott Cassels (28:13.537)
You

Gordon Sheppard (28:32.878)
you know, internal metrics around manufacturing metrics and those types of things and to be in a better spot. And I'm sure that, you know, as your ownership group keeps you honest, they'll even want more and more of that as you go forward. Strategy, work plan, people, operations. Finally, there's results. We have quantitative results, qualitative results. Quantitatively, you moved into a building. You know what, you decreased your square footage by 2000, but you were in one place. Quantitatively, I heard the per man hour at 22 % is a quantitative measure.

Any other quantitative highlights that you like to talk about that made this win occur?

Scott Cassels (29:09.166)
I don't know if it's a quantitative one. I would say more qualitative. It's at least in my opinion, unfortunately, I don't have any research to back it up. I do feel as though the physical presence of the building that we moved into and the location, I think changed a lot of our customers' opinions on what kind of operation we were running.

in our past existence when we were in those four different buildings.

customers would come for a visit and they would see one or two of the buildings while they were looking at their product. And each building was in the 20 to 25,000 square foot range. so they had this image or perception that it was a pretty small operation. And then having moved into this now over 100,000 square foot facility, it's an imposing.

building. It takes up two city blocks. It's changed a lot of their perceptions in terms of the type of operation that we're running. They've recognized that is no longer that mom and pop shop. It is a corporate entity. It is a major manufacturing partner that they're working with.

quantitative, qualitative, I'm not sure how you would define that because there's I think elements of both but certainly the perception of our customer base and perspective customers has changed when they see the operation.

Gordon Sheppard (30:57.454)
Congratulations. Who would have known, who wouldn't, well, maybe you did, you were thinking about it as a marketing investment, as a sales investment, as sort of a beacon. You know what mean? If you're gonna separate yourself from the pack, which would have been part of that original strategy, this is the way that you do it by creating an entity that gets noticed for its own sake. It's so cool. I remember being around one of those GM plants in Oshawa, Ontario, a long time ago and seeing those Monaco's roll off.

Scott Cassels (31:21.603)
Yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (31:24.59)
one a minute or whatever it was. Like, you know what mean? Seeing a new vehicle come out of your plant would be super cool and a super proud moment, I'm sure, whenever those things occur as things walk out the door. So we've got that marketing thing that occurs, the qualitative thing. There's also a signal to this culture change. You know what I mean? We've invested so that the people are here and we've turned it into this corporate entity, which was all the way back at the beginning of the story. It's 2014, you got these ideas, but you pulled it off. Wow, that's just, congratulations. How's it feel?

talking about this story. How's it feel for you?

Scott Cassels (31:56.398)
It feels great actually. it's something that I don't think we do often enough to reflect back on where we came from. Something that to your point throughout the process of how long it took, it was something that we tried to do more regularly at least was to look at where we had come from because a lot of times it felt like

we weren't making any progress. was no growth, there was no improvement. And then when you took the time to look back at where we were and where we had gotten to, because it's a slow moving process, because it's a big ship and it's hard to turn, you don't notice those little victories along the way unless you spend the time to go and look at them. And so that's something that...

I had to remind myself of regularly, I had to remind the team of regularly to look back and say, where were we, where are we now, and is there a noticeable difference? And when you do that, there is. mean, when you're moving slowly, it's hard to notice those changes. And when you do look back after a period of time and realize there's been progress, significant progress.

It's easy to miss as it's happening.

Gordon Sheppard (33:22.061)
Well, and thanks for the sleepless nights. Thanks for putting the story together for, you know what I mean? I get to hear the great story and it's one thing to go rear view mirror and go, okay, that worked out. But gosh, you we heard a lot of those, there's a lot of those moments along the way. Like you said, right? Are we getting traction? Are we not? And we didn't even get into day to day, you know what I mean? Just regular operations that are kind of in there along the way. And now you're moving into other horizons on the economic times. If I say tariff, do you know what I mean? Like all these things that are just part of business.

that what you're doing, but you got it this far. As I'm listening to you, what is it about yourself that has the long view? I mean, they're lucky to have you as a leader. What is this long view and patience? Because I mean, I don't know, you could run away screaming at some point along, know, it's 20, right? But you didn't, there's something long view in your own approach. How would you reflect on that?

Scott Cassels (33:51.149)
Yeah.

Scott Cassels (34:05.358)
you

Yeah.

Scott Cassels (34:17.098)
you know, I honestly, I don't know where that comes from. I think it's, I've always been a patient person. I know that, you know, it things, things don't change quickly. it, and when it does, I think it's bizarre, I guess. So for me, I've always been a patient person. And I think it's maybe the belief that I had in the process or the belief that I had in,

making the changes that I knew they would pay off. I didn't always have the proof. didn't always have the quantitative results to show that it was working. But I think a bit of it was a gut feeling that it was going to pay off and that we just needed to stick to it. And it would. And fortunately, I was right. I guess we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

probably never would have met had it not worked. But I think that's the nature of my personality. I don't get too high, I don't get too low. I just try and stay the course and be patient and the results will come. It's, I guess, belief that things will pay off if you do it the right way.

Gordon Sheppard (35:41.902)
Super insightful. Thank you for the art and the science behind what's, you know what mean? Like really, that's what you're describing here. And it's not like, like I did an MBA, they didn't teach me patience and vision. You know, it's not in, it's not in those classes. There's sort of more classical, you know, stuff and, know, that you get along with. So there's something, so thanks for that insight into you, into your team, into some of those returning people that made it a success along the way, into that ownership group.

Scott Cassels (35:46.318)
Absolutely.

Scott Cassels (35:54.872)
Yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (36:09.453)
that went with you, they went with you on the ride. Like it's not, and again, it's not like an easy ride. and so they're, I'm sure they're on the happier end of things now in terms of, you know, how far and how successful you've been here. You know, when I got leaders like you on the show, I always have to say, can you give us just a few sentences, maybe to that leader, it's 2014 in their world. Do you know I mean? And what are the sort of things that you like to convey when you are mentoring somebody or whatever, just a couple of sentences for another leader that you like to pass along maybe from your own wisdom chest.

Scott Cassels (36:30.008)
Yeah.

Scott Cassels (36:40.814)
Good question. I guess to me it would be that you need to trust in your process. need to trust in yourself first. Then you need to be able to find those leaders or team members that can help support your beliefs and will help you drive those through because it

It is impossible to do by yourself. You cannot achieve anything, I think, on your own in a world that I operate in. It's a multi-faceted approach. You need team members that can see the vision and to help you drive that home, to fill in those gaps, going back to earlier in our conversation that...

that I have, I know I have, I can't do everything on my own and I need to be able to trust in the team to help me deliver on the vision.

Gordon Sheppard (37:46.829)
Be tenacious, resilient, get the right people around you and you're gonna pull it off. Scott, what a great, great interview. I think so many leaders are gonna hear this and kinda get, again, a bit of their own roadmap for what it takes to do big things in this world and make things happen. Thank you so much for being on the show.

Scott Cassels (38:03.802)
Thank you Gordon, I appreciate it. It was a fun process to go through and I think you're doing a great job.

Gordon Sheppard (38:18.03)
Easy peasy.