EW 030 – How Nanos Research Wins By Helping Clients To Accurately Call Federal Elections In Canada – with Nick Nanos, Founder of Nanos Research

Gordon Sheppard (00:01.071)
Nik, welcome to the show.

Nik Nanos (00:03.822)
It's great to join you, Gordon.

Gordon Sheppard (00:05.573)
Well, it's really good to have you here with your, I'm gonna say many decades of experience in your area, just to make you some, I think we brought you on to take a nap is the idea, but what we're gonna hear is the deep experience and why you do well at the work that you do in your area. And I don't mean to steal your thunder, because a lot of people listening maybe haven't met you yet. And so if you met them at an event and you had to explain kind of who you are, what would you say?

Nik Nanos (00:12.146)
Am I supposed to take a nap? Am I supposed to take a nap? Is that what you're saying?

Nik Nanos (00:34.542)
I'm a data hound, how's that? I'm the chief data scientist and the founder of Nano's research. I crunch numbers, sort through the data and give recommendations and provide strategy to clients. Day in, day out.

Gordon Sheppard (00:48.817)
Data hound, is that sort of your tattoo that we can't see that you've got somewhere?

Nik Nanos (00:52.91)
I don't know, like, you mean like here? Well, no, no tattoos. And I know we're getting a little personal to start off with, but.

Gordon Sheppard (00:57.287)
Help me up.

You've been in the data business for a long time. Just take me back there. Why data? What was the early spark to then go and pursue this long career in business in this area?

Nik Nanos (01:11.534)
Serendipity Gordon, you know what? I was supposed to be a lawyer Can I tell you my mother cried when I told her that I was not going to be a lawyer I was in Queens. I was a university studying politics history economics all that kind of stuff. I was getting ready to go to law school and then one of my dad's friends Was running as a political candidate. So I'm a Queens person Queens University is running as a candidate in Kingston the islands He had a proposal

to do a public opinion survey from some company in Toronto and he said, Nik, is this any good? It was for $10,000, the princely sum, but you know, in the 1980s, $10,000, Gordon, we knew was coin, real coin. And I did the project for him and then afterwards he said, hey, what are you doing? I go, I'm going to law school. He says, I think you might be good at this. You should start a company. He goes, do you have any money? And I go, yeah, 10,000 bucks, that's what I've got.

And actually he invested in the company and brought other investors and it all started while I was still just finishing up my undergraduate degree at Queens University.

Gordon Sheppard (02:20.121)
I love that serendipity. Oylthi, Nibandrigan, Kia, Kia, Kia, as a Queen's grad myself, 89, so I've walked that hallowed campus myself and could tell you wonderful stories about being there. How neat to get your start there, but how also interesting that you got started and then you stuck with it and got really good at it, right? There's a process of getting good at it over those years. Is that fair?

Nik Nanos (02:26.062)
Wow.

Nik Nanos (02:43.542)
Yeah, I always kind of say it's like a 35 year overnight success. And you know, the reality Gordon is that for the first 10 years, it was really tough. You know, I was in a market, mid-sized market, small market, Kingston, which is where we started and we started off by doing local surveys. And then we started doing regional surveys and then we started to do provincial surveys. And then eventually we got to starting to do national and now international surveys. you know, we really built the company from the ground up.

Gordon Sheppard (02:47.953)
Right?

Nik Nanos (03:13.326)
one project at a time over the last 35 to 40 years.

Gordon Sheppard (03:18.599)
Boy, don't you sound like a business owner. I've heard that 20 year overnight success story, 35 year overnight success story. I've had a lot of guests on this show that have sort of forwarded that same sentiment around things. Well, so we've got a good feel for your data houndedness and we're here to chat with you about that now. And one of the things we'd like to ask is if you had to describe one of your biggest wins in your work in the last couple of years, what would that win be and how would you describe it?

Nik Nanos (03:33.454)
You

Nik Nanos (03:43.05)
It would be the federal election tracking that we do for CTV news and the Globe and Mail. The elections kind of like I'll call it. No, we're really having kind of like a dog motif here. It's like the election is the big dog competition for pollsters, right? Everybody wants to get it right. Everyone wants to have the best call. And, you know, for us, the election is one of those signature times where we get to demonstrate the quality of our

Gordon Sheppard (04:12.846)
Isn't that remarkable because of course we know, let's take our Dan Rathers if I get to reach far back enough, you know, with sort of making a wrong call. Do you know what mean? We know those folks on election night. They're sitting there, they're public eye, they want to be first in the media certainly, getting ready and I'm sure a lot of other people want to be first with that information and you're the one that helps them get the most accurate call. Is that fair?

Nik Nanos (04:22.267)
yeah.

Nik Nanos (04:34.197)
Yeah, and you know, we started doing nightly tracking during elections in 2004. So now we've been doing that for over 20 years. We're the first company to do publicly available nightly tracking in federal elections. And you know, the good news is Gordon is that we have never embarrassed ourselves or our clients in a federal election. We've been right most of the time. We are either the first or second best call, but we have a great track record on that front.

Gordon Sheppard (05:02.446)
And somewhere in there, there's secret sauce and the diligence that it takes to be in business as long as you have been underneath there. Is that something that's happening? What's the work ethic that kind of gets that done?

Nik Nanos (05:12.205)
I don't know. Maybe this is going to be a shorter podcast secret sauce. There's no secret sauce Actually, everything that we do is in the public domain all the steps and doing a high quality product It's kind of like you know what Gordon? It's like someone that Bakes cakes cookies all those types of things everyone has the same ingredients everyone has the same recipe But why is it that two people with the same ingredients and recipe come up with different outcomes and you know research?

probability research, social science is no different. And you know, for us, it's all about managing for the details, the quality inputs in terms of the training of the call center, the quality questionnaires that we design, our analysis. So I always think of it, Gordon, as managing quality for every small step in the process. And when you add those things up, it gives us a significant advantage in the marketplace.

Gordon Sheppard (06:11.352)
Number of steps to get an election call. You said you manage every step. Is it 60? Is it 100? Like, do you what mean? How many, like just back of the napkin. Have you got one so we can get a feel for how many things you need to manage?

Nik Nanos (06:22.615)
there's probably like 20 steps in the process from designing the reports, programming the surveys, training the interviewers, doing the tabulations, proofing the reports, writing the analysis and the headline for the day, pushing it out the door, and then doing media commentary and analysis throughout the day. It's a 24-hour cycle during elections for the Nanos team where it's kind of, you know, we start.

We start calling during the day. We call until 11 o'clock. The numbers are crunched. There's another team that creates the reports. The reports just think we finished at 11 o'clock at night Eastern because we're calling across the country. By 6 a.m. statistical reports and analysis are provided to the clients. By 7 a.m. we start doing interviews and the polls start getting reported in the media.

Gordon Sheppard (07:13.51)
The secret sauce, I hear the secret sauce out loud. Like you said, there's two bakers side by side, but one's got something. There's something special about what you're doing and it's nice to get a little bit of insight into that thing. In our pre-interview, you mentioned driving to work in a suit and tie one day with your kids. Can you tell that story?

Nik Nanos (07:28.789)
Yeah, yeah, so I have four boys and you know, during one of the elections I remember I was driving the kids to school, dropping them off and one of my sons goes, Dad, are you okay? And I go, why? He goes, well, you just seem a little different today. And it was election day. And I said to my son, James, go, James, today, you know how you have a report card?

He goes, yeah, I go, well, today dad gets his report card, except the difference is when you get report your report card, the teacher knows and your mom and dad knows and maybe your brothers. However, for your dad's report card, it is broadcast in the news. If your dad does not do well, it is big news. And so, you know, the thing is, is that today I get the report card on the work that myself and everyone at the Nanos team has been doing.

over the last 30 to 40 days and we're hopeful that we still have another good showing. Fortunately the report cards have worked out pretty well for Nano's research over all the elections that we've done over the last number of decades.

Gordon Sheppard (08:37.232)
You're doing okay in school and your report card, it's interesting, like you said, him between him and his teacher at that age, you between you and the country and the world. There are analysts, there are markets, there are political scenarios, there's a lot riding on the accuracy of what you're doing. And again, you're doing it at high level. Give me, now just, I need to circle back to the win for a second and just give me one sentence about, like pull the wind together so that we can get a nice summary on it.

Nik Nanos (08:55.138)
What?

Nik Nanos (09:03.49)
Well, you mean like how I feel at the end of this thing?

Gordon Sheppard (09:05.476)
No, no, the one sentence for the win itself. The win is getting elections correct. Is that correct?

Nik Nanos (09:10.734)
The win is to get the election correct and to predict everything within the margin of error.

Gordon Sheppard (09:18.502)
Perfect. So now what I'd like to jump into in the interview here is what I call the anatomy of a win to break that down a little bit more. So we know what the win is. The anatomy of a win for me is what is the strategy, the work plan, the people, operations and results behind a win? So when we think about the strategy, like what's the strategic highlight behind getting it?

Nik Nanos (09:31.469)
Well, it's

Nik Nanos (09:36.131)
Well, this is, you know, for all intents and purposes, we just consider it's like going to war, right? It's like preparation, you know, all the logistics, you know, and you know, the thing is, is every time we do an election, we start with doing a debrief on what we did last time, thinking of new things, because you can't be doing, if you're any kind of enterprise, or if you're in the research business, you can't be doing the same thing over and over again, you have to be doing something new.

You have to show that you're adapting. You have to show that you're innovative and that you're agile. So usually it starts with what's the new thing that we're going to do in this particular election that's different than any other elections. And then we start building all the logistical items, the foundational items that we need, new reports, new tracking, new platforms that we're going to share the data. And then we start building and building and building. And then we start engaging after that.

we go to our clients, the Globe and Mail and CTV News and say, here are the new ideas that we have for this election. Because you know, the thing is, it's not just about us, it's about our media partners who are hiring and paying for us to show that they are doing innovative and new things. because, you know, when we do well, they do well. And you know, the thing is, it's about eyeballs and ratings on this front. think of going to war and getting all those logistical pieces in place.

and getting ready to do battle on a day-by-day basis, pushing out the data and kind of sharing with Canadians what's happening on the election.

Gordon Sheppard (11:13.382)
Give me an example of a new innovative piece that you're proud of.

Nik Nanos (11:17.144)
Well, one of the things that we've been doing, usually tracking involves, I'll call it the horse race. You know, it's like red team is up or down or the blue team is up or down and so forth and preferred prime minister. One of the newer things that we've done in tracking and it's value added is to focus on issues, right? What are people feeling about the campaign? What are the issues that they want the candidates and the

parties to talk about because you know what Gordon, many times campaigns in terms of the political parties, they try to shape what the narrative is, what the discussion, what the issues are. And it doesn't always match what Canadians want to hear about. So one of the things that we did new in the last election was regular tracking. Actually, we added issues to the nightly tracking every night. So we were able to push out between five to six issue polls.

basically every week in order to add more context and interest and attention to the work that we're doing.

Gordon Sheppard (12:21.806)
And those issues and what Canadians care about can often be in conflict with maybe what the political narrative is. And so you're actually pulling out the pulse of the voter in this case with that new approach to what you're doing. So the strategy piece is you're going to war. There's, you know what I mean? And in there, when I speak to a business owner, long time business owner like yourself, there's something in there about the vision, the mission, goals, values. How would you describe any, maybe your values in a sense of being significant and getting this win?

Nik Nanos (12:33.016)
Yeah.

Nik Nanos (12:48.93)
Well, at the very top is kind of integrity and transparency in what we do. And the thing is, I look at it this way. In our business, I feel like I have a responsibility. I have a responsibility to the people that use our research, that follow our research to do a quality job, right? To basically deliver on the promise of

data with integrity that they can rely on. You know what, Gordon, is interesting. When I started the firm back in the 1980s, Alan Gregg, massive pollster, he was the real dominant personality. And I remember...

I remember we're thinking like how are going to compete against someone like Alan Gregg and you know, he was the rock star for those of you that might not remember Alan Gregg. He wore these long black leather jackets. He was he was behind the tragically hit group. He literally was a rock star pollster that everyone looked up to and I remember thinking well, look at me now in the shirt and tie. I remember thinking well, there's no way we can compete as another personality like that. And where we landed back in the 1980s was we're going to be like

the bank, right? Someone that is true, someone that you can rely on, someone that even if you hear other things, you're going to go to the bank and say, Hey, is what do think that we should be doing? with a very different personality than and lot of the other pollsters who were why don't we just say interesting characters. So a little more boring, but kind of like one of those things. And now because we've been around and because of our track record,

Even when new trends emerge, many times people are like, well, let's wait to see what Nik and Nano's team are going to say. And if they say that something's happening, then it's validated. And that's kind of the role that we've kind of carved out. But think of integrity and transparency so that people can see how we do everything so that they can check and stress test our quality.

Gordon Sheppard (14:55.952)
So often in business, we talk about having a differentiator and this conscious decision to be the bank. What a great position to take at the right time and to have that continuity all the way through again for a long time to then be that reliable trusted source. Congratulations as a business leader to be able to get that to happen. That's pretty remarkable. Started with strategy. Anytime we have a strategy, we need a work plan. Now the win here is getting that election call right. Something spins up.

I don't know how, is it 18 months in advance, 12 months in advance? When's sort of the start moment and then the end moment is maybe after the election call in a sense. But what's that time period and what are some of the highlights in the work plan along the way?

Nik Nanos (15:31.408)
Well, you know, when there's a majority government, we know that there's not going to be an election for four years. So it'd be like, we've just had an election, we can take a little break, and then we can gear up a year ahead. What happens when we're in a minority situation is that we know that the government could realistically almost fall and trigger an election anytime, although the probability might be different day by day. But, you know, we usually prepare about a year in advance.

for an election where we start to go through all of our materials, start to kind of crunch the numbers, look at what new things that we might want to do, prepare the concepts for those, and then to start kind of building those one step at a time. so it's not something that happens at the last minute. And then usually when we get a little closer, when it's six months out from when the likely election is, that's when we talk to our clients. And you know what?

I know, I'd always kind of say, there's a bit of a running joke where I tell the folks, my media clients on election day, Gordon, I say, you know, if I mess up, I expect you to fire me. Because I figured, I get that, awkwardness, and then we're all nervously laughing, because I've never been fired, and I've never messed up. But I think it's important for them to hear from me that I'm taking this seriously, right?

and that my reputation and their reputation is both on the line. So then usually what happens six months out from the election is when we start to engage our regular media partners, the Globe and CTV, to say, we want to continue the partnership? Here are the ideas that we have. But when we start talking to the Globe and CTV, we already have new ideas for them to consider in the bag. And then we kind of work those ideas. And then once they come on board and once they confirm that, then we start building.

building all the kind of elements, the online elements and the reports and stuff like that in order to make it happen.

Gordon Sheppard (17:32.519)
Great, and then there's that moment, you know, just on the day of when you're almost fired but you haven't been fired yet and you're still trying to get fired, I can hear, there you go. So we've got the strategy and the work plan, there's people involved in getting a win. And how would you describe the key people in getting this win and their attitudes? And I think you mentioned, is it your brother that's...

Nik Nanos (17:37.583)
Could be clear.

Nik Nanos (17:51.629)
I'm partners, yes, my brother and I own the firm.

Gordon Sheppard (17:54.279)
Yeah, so let's talk about that partnership for a second and the attitudes of you both maybe.

Nik Nanos (17:58.116)
Yeah, well, you know, we're a family business. Like all family business, it's great and you know, it's more complicated. And you know, the good news is that my brother and I, we're equal partners in the firm. He has very different responsibilities than I have. So John is the money guy.

He runs all the money, he runs the operations, he makes things happen and stuff like that. And then I am the kind of the person that is working on the methodology, working on the marketing. I'm more responsible, my lead is to bring in business. And you know, the way it works is when we're talking about something in his area, like the budget and stuff like that, I will share my opinions, but I know he has the final say.

And the same thing goes in my area that he'll share his opinions on what we're doing from a marketing perspective and methodology, but I have the final say. And then my mother's still alive, Gordon. And then would be periodically my mother would go and to complicate things, my brother and I are not only 50 % partners in the company, we're also 50 % partners in looking after my mom. She lives with me part of the year and she lives with John part of the year. So my mother is a complicating factor.

For anyone in a family business, probably understand this, because she'd go, Nik, were you mean to your brother today? And then I'd say something like, we might have exchanged words, but this is serious stuff that we're dealing with. This is really important stuff. So how about that for an extra complicating factor on the business front?

Gordon Sheppard (19:32.657)
And you've done all this within that family business scenario and you're still got, there's something about family business when they're still together after a while, like there's some neat glue that's there. Cause you know, there'd be, you'd have a book tent, I don't know how thick that book would be with all the stories that are in there that any family business kind of goes through. There's other.

Nik Nanos (19:48.589)
Yeah, and you know what? My brother's my best friend, right? Period.

Gordon Sheppard (19:51.592)
Yeah, and how lucky, right? So your serendipity starts you off, you get in there, and then you get a chance to work with your best friend for a long time. What a great story. What was I gonna say in there? There's other people involved, and I'm gonna suggest your clients. How would you describe your clients? You know, this is a win, and you're always a year out. Do you know what mean? There's a fresh start, and it's not fresh, but you know what mean? You got the reputation, but you still gotta go through that year. How would you describe your clients' attitudes, you know, at the beginning of the year before?

Nik Nanos (20:03.087)
Yes.

Gordon Sheppard (20:18.285)
and then leading up to it and afterwards. What's that arc look like?

Nik Nanos (20:22.352)
Well, actually, it's very similar to our arc, which is why it works with the clients. When you have a client, you've got to be on the same page. You have to have the same objectives. So the clients are thinking of, they're thinking the same thing. They're thinking, what is the new thing that we can do to maintain our competitive advantage in the marketplace? What are the ideas that Nik might have? And you know, the other thing is that I treat client money like my own money. And you know what? This might sound weird, Gordon, but many times,

clients will want to do something and I'd say, listen, I'm not here to talk myself out of business, but I don't think that you should do this. And you know, the thing is, is by having those frank conversations, just because money is offered doesn't mean that you should be taking it. It doesn't mean that it's in the best interest of the client or even in your best interest. And you know, I think because we're family owned, we can make those, we can say those things and we can make those types of decisions. And we have a different relationship, you know, with our, with a lot of our clients because they see us.

know, for the Globe and CTV, we've been doing the polling with them for like 15 years or thereabouts. It's like we've grown up together on the election. We've gone through all the battles, all the wars we've fought together so that they know that when I present something, it is actually in their best interest that I think that it can be a win for them and that we can be part of their winning team.

Gordon Sheppard (21:43.591)
That really describes that relationship well. And I really do need to touch on your team. There's not just you and your brother who pull this together in the background. There's how roughly, what's the head count that pulls this together and how would you describe their attitude through this process?

Nik Nanos (21:55.633)
Well, our regular headcount is about 75, but this is because we have our own call center. And you know, this is also part of our approach. Here's a little tidbit. Most polling companies in Canada, and actually maybe around the world, are no longer vertically integrated.

that they might be outsourcing online surveys. They might be out not having a call center that they did. You know that they basically shed a lot of those things because they would outsource a call center to the Philippines or to some other place. But during the election, our headcount probably goes to about 100 or thereabouts because of the call center extra call center capacity that we have. But what's key here is that we believe in being vertically integrated. We control

directly every single part of the research process. Because I want to know that the person doing the calls that is representing Nanos and reaching out to voters has been trained properly, right? That they're doing their job that we can directly kind of oversee and verify and monitor and supervise their work. And you know, the other good thing about this Gordon is that when a client asks us to do something and they want us to do something really fast, I can say yes.

Right? I don't have to check with another company. I don't have to check with another supplier because we're vertically integrated. And you know that this goes back to what I said at the beginning about managing quality for every single step of the process. Because we have 100 % control over every single step, we can speak with authority and we know that things are done properly. And if there is something for us to check into, we can actually do it.

without relying on anyone external to the firm.

Gordon Sheppard (23:44.265)
Sorry, you said there wasn't secret sauce. I'm hearing secret sauce. Cause there's something about the onboarding of that call center person, onboarding of a researcher, onboarding that meets your integrity, that meets being the bank. Do you know what I mean? That's your vertical integration. You can hear that you've done it not only with the people, but there's an onboarding component that carries out your overall kind of vision, mission and values. That's wonderful. So we've heard strategy, work plan, people. Operationally, we've heard there's this 20 step thing.

Nik Nanos (23:47.449)
Yeah!

Nik Nanos (23:52.581)
Yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (24:13.722)
in a sense to kind of get it done, like where we got it hit on these key points. And I just mean to not necessarily go through them all, but if we could pick out maybe one or two of those operational moments to give us the brass tacks on the operational component, what would you highlight in getting this win?

Nik Nanos (24:30.116)
Well, I would highlight just a few things. First of all, the sampling. Like, do we have a random sample? Right? Is our sample representative? And you know, the thing is, a sample costs money too. So we pay more for sample. It goes back to the ingredients and the inputs. Higher quality inputs yield to higher quality outputs. And you know, Gordon, one of the things that I spend most of my time on, questions, writing questions. Believe it or not, I spend most of my day looking at questions that we might ask.

because having a proper unbiased question is probably the most important, one of the most important elements in this whole process. I'd always tell people, you know, don't check how big the survey was. You know, you should be looking at what the questions are asked and actually the order of the questions because those can help make a survey much more accurate when you're looking at measuring something. So that's what I'm involved. And then checking.

double checking, checking your work. You know, I check my own work. You know, when we have an analyst write a report, they have colleagues checking their work to make sure all the statistics are correct. Because, you know, here's the good news, Gordon. We've been doing nightly tracking since 2004, and we produce reports every single day of the election, for every federal election. Not once, not once ever have we issued a report that we've had to take back.

or issued a report with a statistic that is incorrect. And you know, the thing is, that that culture of pride and craftsmanship starts at the top and it radiates all the way down. And you know, when we're hiring people, we're usually not really spending a lot of time. And you know, the team usually vets and does most of the interviewing process. And my only question is, is do you think they fit in with our culture, right?

You know that attention to detail, pride in work, the belief that you're actually doing work that makes our democracy stronger and that we are a positive force in that political ecosystem.

Gordon Sheppard (26:40.552)
Thank you for losing sleep during the election so that we can all kind of go forward in a better way. And that pride in work is just ringing through not only in the words that you're saying, honestly, you can hear that you believe it. You know, there's no doubt that you've been living it, breathing it, and that's coming across strategy, work plan, people, operations. We've covered those areas. The final part of Anatomy of a Win is the results, the qualitative and quantitative results. What are the highlights quantitatively and qualitatively? I'm gonna say quantitatively,

Nik Nanos (26:43.12)
Yeah

Gordon Sheppard (27:10.396)
You get it right. Do you know what mean? Like there's some numbers in there that kind of there. Any quantitative, qualitative results that you'd to point out that contribute to getting this win?

Nik Nanos (27:18.522)
Well, you know, getting it right, first of all, but you know, second of all, I'm always happy when someone stops me when I'm walking down the street and it happens a lot during elections because people want to tell me what they're thinking about. And they say, you know, Nik, you said something about the election that put everything into clarity, right? That made sense in terms because what we have are campaigns spinning the electorate, but that I would help ground people in terms of what was

actually happening. And you know, that type of qualitative feedback is really important. It makes me feel that not only are we, you know, do we have like the machinery to generate a quality output, but we have the brain power to kind of dig beneath the numbers and tell people what's really going on and and to help move things forward.

Gordon Sheppard (28:09.033)
I love that during this time you brought up the democracy. There's a there's peace in there that's significant in this country at this moment in geopolitical times to have that objective outside voice and that proper way to do things that cuts through the noise in a sense that's there. There's a lot of leaders that are listening to this show and they hear about wins, you know, and how people got them, leaders like yourself. If you had any suggestions for a leader.

as they go towards their next win. Any thoughts here at the end of the interview for suggestions that you would make to another leader?

Nik Nanos (28:43.748)
Two things, be humble. And the second thing is, you know, getting up in my world, getting election right should not be a big celebration. It's kind of like celebrating whenever the plane safely lands. Like you should not be celebrate. If you need to celebrate that, then maybe you're in the wrong line of business. You should be approaching things in a humble way and thinking I have delivered on my mission. You should be satisfied.

that you've done that. And I get a little worried when I see folks celebrating things that would be like, if you have a top-notch restaurant, like you have Michelin-starred restaurant and rated, you don't celebrate delivering a good meal because it's not an exception, right? Delivering for your client should not be an exception. It should be something that you should be humble about.

And also it should be something that should lead to satisfaction, but not kind of breaking out the champagne because you know what? You delivered on your promise to people and your promise to clients.

Gordon Sheppard (29:56.084)
What a gift. Thank you so much for sharing your win here today. And yes, there was a lot of ingredients that are in the secret sauce. Nik, thank you so much for being on the show.

Nik Nanos (30:06.458)
Great to join you and all your listeners.

Gordon Sheppard (30:11.636)
Holy, that was great.

Nik Nanos (30:12.773)
Was that okay?