EW 007 – How To Unapologetically Build An Effective Team To Commercialize A New Technology – How President Trevor Kloeck Helps Plantae Technologies Win Every Day

Gordon Sheppard (00:01.912)
Trevor, welcome to the show.

Trevor Kloeck (00:04.497)
Pleasure being here.

Gordon Sheppard (00:06.124)
You know, it's just so lucky to have you here, you know, with the experience that you're bringing to the work that you do. But a lot of people, you know, haven't met you. And so if you had to describe sort of yourself and your company and kind of the big vision that you've got for the world, please let us in on that so we can get to know you.

Trevor Kloeck (00:23.057)
So we're kind of unique in the way that we actually look at nature as kind of the solution for most of our problems, right? So I think in the world today, we're taught that nature is something that's vulnerable, that needs to be protected, that's being destroyed. And that's actually not the way we see it. Nature does have a lot of issues that we need to take very seriously, but it's also our biggest asset.

And so within the vision of the company and kind of what we're doing, we look at that as nature itself and natural systems is a way to solve most of our problems, right? So this kind of comes from a unique history in the company where we're kind of an odd combination of what I would call very unique, high quality engineering skills, then unique, very high quality biology skills coupled with a real sense of business in the leadership team.

Gordon Sheppard (01:18.189)
Fantastic. it's Plantae. And how long has Plantae been in business?

Trevor Kloeck (01:22.225)
We started just a few weeks before COVID hit. we were, our timing, I don't know if it was the best of times or the worst of times, but we were right there when it hit. So three weeks before COVID started in 2020 is when we incorporated the company. But regardless of that pandemic and all the disruption it caused, we started manufacturing in 2022 on a very limited scale with a brand new technology.

Gordon Sheppard (01:48.91)
Brand new technology and problems that you solve if sort of, you for someone that doesn't know, you're in this genius sort of biology meets engineering solution based technology unique scenario. But you know, if I'm Joe Schmoe and I need to say, well, what's a Plantae application and what problem is it solving? Maybe just give me one or two examples.

Trevor Kloeck (02:08.805)
Yeah, so right now most of our products when we look at them in the industry are actually being used to repair damaged soils, right? So we're used to thinking about soils in the context of a construction project or an agriculture and we work in those types of areas as well. But when we start to think about kind of where Canada's history is, it's in mining, it's in oil and gas, it's at forestry. And we scratch and disturb the landscape on a very large scale here. So we actually targeted that as our beachhead market, right? So we developed a product

line that allows us to stabilize repair and enhance the recovery of soils and things like pipelines, mines, oil and gas sites, etc.

Gordon Sheppard (02:48.046)
Remarkable. So, you know, I've got my old pipeline, I've got to get rid of it sort of thing and you folks would be able to come in and help me recover that soil and get it back to, like you said at the beginning, it's almost natural state. Is that the idea?

Trevor Kloeck (02:59.365)
Yeah, so it's less about an old net pipeline, but anytime that their ground is disturbed, Canada's got very strong regulations, right, in the environmental space. Canadians as a whole ought to be more proud of what we do with the environment than we are. We're too humble, sometimes for our own good. And so what we do, let's say when the coastal gasoline pipeline's being built or the trans-mountain pipeline's being built or other pipelines that are coming through the region, our products will be used when that soil's removed and put back to protect that

and get it back into a healthy ecological state, right? And so what's important about that ecological state, and this is why we've got such good progressive companies here, is when they do that and we have a healthy soil back, it's actually very resistant to disruption and to other changes. It's a nice, strong system. Nature is the best protection for a damaged environment.

Gordon Sheppard (03:52.974)
Remarkable. There's so much to unpack in there, including going through the genius brains in you and your company to come up with a solution that can actually do this and do this well. And I think people are going to do well to go to your website for Plantae and check it out and learn more about it for themselves and certainly their industrial applications and that type of thing. In the meantime, the lucky part was getting to pre-interview and learn a little bit about some of the good things that are happening in your world. And we always start this off to say, if you had to pick kind of one of your biggest wins in business in the last couple of years, what would it be?

And how would you describe it?

Trevor Kloeck (04:24.277)
That's always such a hard question to answer. I think we're super proud of how some of our products are being used in the field, right? So, know, technologically, the big win for us is being able to develop the world's first soil stabilization hydraulic product with hemp fibers. It's actually very technically difficult. And it allows us to build other products in the future around packaging, composites, pulp, and consumer goods, right? Because we're talking about a very high technical threshold that we were able to master.

What's interesting is it's probably not the thing I'm most proud of. I'm actually most proud of the team that we assembled, right? So we often make mistakes in the business world of thinking that technologies make businesses or markets make businesses. It's people that make businesses, right? So very deliberately, very cautiously, we tried to build a team that allowed us to actually do big things with good ideas. So it's not just about being smart. It's about kind of a culture we've established within the company.

Gordon Sheppard (05:23.799)
You've given me a fork in the road here and I'm just going to follow one of those strands because I'm really interested in soil stabilization and cool, you know, chem engineering and all the things that you've done there, but I'm going to pick up on your people part because you can hear that's where your pride is in terms of what we can talk about here today. You know, it's just so significant that you would sort of clue in on that because I've actually heard on this show, other technology CEOs talk about that very thing. They've got a cool thing they've created and takes a lot of work to get there.

In the meantime, they've really talked about this team building component. So when we get into this now, I always like to introduce what I call the anatomy of a win to learn a little bit more in depth about, you know, the win that you're talking about. We talk about being proud of these proud of your people and what it took to kind of get here at this moment. What is the strategy work plan, people, operations and results? We'll get into it behind, you know, making that a priority. So you got this company, you started up just before COVID. Was it in the strategy right away?

For example, or did it emerge in the strategy, know, in terms of the vision, the mission, kind of the goals you had for the company, did it emerge to have good people? Did you have it from the get go or did it kind of grow with you?

Trevor Kloeck (06:31.213)
Yeah, we right from the get-go, I think it was probably, I'd say one of the central principles of the company, right? We knew we had a technology and a pathway to market that was actually very viable. But, you know, my partners and I have all been in this business a long time. We've seen many companies come and go. We've seen companies fail. And one of the reasons that they often fail is all around people, right? So I would say that it was probably central. So we consider ourselves a community. that the value right from the

that are operating as operators on the planet, to our engineering staff, to the people in our front office, they all embrace that culture, right? And so the most important thing about that is actually the vision. Like the intent with the company is obviously to be very profitable, that's critical, but the mission is to do something good on this planet, right? So for us to keep these staff and to keep everybody together, it's important that everybody's bought into the why, right?

And it can't be stated enough as innovation is really hard. You've heard me talk about that before. And if they're not bought into the journey and the hugs that you get sometimes and the punches you get, the steps forward, the steps back, you're not going to make it, right? So it's all about getting people to buy into a bigger vision because it's going to get hard at times.

Gordon Sheppard (07:53.302)
Interesting, because you could go through, I'm going to say, whatever, lose a contract, an experiment goes wrong, whatever these sort of peaks and valleys that you're talking about along the way. So you have to really invest in getting them to buy into the vision. Who's the cheerleader in this situation? Is it you? Is it the whole team? How does that get carried forward?

Trevor Kloeck (08:08.977)
Right now what's really cool about it, and which is why I say I'm so proud of the whole group is it's everybody, right? So I think at times obviously from a senior management group there's about four or five of us that are in the plant regularly that act as we'll call it that vision board that that leader that kind of gets everybody charged up. But once you've got a team charged up, they do it themselves, right?

doesn't mean you're not going to have wrinkles along the way but they're either be the ones at charge and to give you some examples we've had some major innovations even on the polymer side that we didn't even know were coming just because the staff we had were so passionate about what they did they took it on themselves to actually learn about what was happening.

Gordon Sheppard (08:50.518)
Isn't that remarkable? So they're a motivated group. You've got that sort of dialed in and we'll get into some of the details about why they're so motivated. Something I picked up on, I got a chance to look over your website. You've got some non-negotiable values that you're putting out in the world. Are you familiar with them? And maybe you can reflect on, was four solid ones there, but do you know them? Can you let us know kind of the gist of them and why they're so important?

Trevor Kloeck (09:03.003)
Yeah. Yeah.

Trevor Kloeck (09:15.397)
Yeah, so the values of the company is that we're really centered around being unapologetically sustainable, right? We're unapologetically honest, right? And we're going to do the right things for the customer and for the planet, right? In the media and quite justifiably, there's lots of conversations about greenwashing, right? And so coming back from my professional background, we've always seen that as something that's not really necessary.

So if you're really building back from natural principles, then you're honest about them, you can actually achieve some really cool commercial and technological innovations, but you can't deviate. And it's very easy to deviate from those things. And part of the reason why that central mission around being unapologetically honest and unapologetically sustainable are so critical is everybody needs to be on mission all the time.

and they need to have permission to say no. And it's a great way for us to be able to filter things out of the business, right, in terms of...

product opportunities that we shouldn't be following or getting distracted by a customer requirement that really isn't quite on brand. And it's been a big part of our growth strategy, right? Cause it kind of keeps you focused on what you're good at. And that's not, and it's not spurious in the sense that everybody talks about green and the green washing thing. We actually mean it, right? And so we have to be able to defend that in every step that we're doing through the business.

Gordon Sheppard (10:42.498)
I love the word unapologetic. I mean, it's one thing to say we are, you know, whatever, we're gonna sustain the planet. And that's by the way, often in those big, when you look at multinationals, that'll get in there. Unapologetic speaks to, again, the crew and the care that you've put into developing this scenario. And isn't that interesting that there's economic payoffs? If we're going down a rabbit hole the wrong way, we know people can say no. That's tough to get.

throughout a culture. Like how many employees, how many people all in for your company? So you got 20 people and they've all adapted that attitude. So onboarding would be no problem because you would either get somebody out of there quickly who didn't go along with this or once they're bought in, they're bought in very quickly. Shiny object syndrome is not a problem because you know these values are super strong and you can keep that going. Wow, what a remarkable base. You had it from the get go. It reflects the founders in terms of what you're doing. It's what you're most proud of and we're in the middle of

Trevor Kloeck (11:13.273)
I'm just under 20 right now with the group.

Gordon Sheppard (11:36.684)
You know, building out, you've got the values, you've got the vision in your strategy, the goals obviously clear around being very profitable, but also then allowing you to pull off these values by being profitable at the same time. What up? Well, you must sleep well at night because it must be so fun to go to work. And it gets me on to step number two. If we have a strategy, we have to have a practical part. I'll call it the work plan. This is the what, who, and the when to actually pull this off. So if we're going to have great people, what are some of the highlights of the work plan?

to make that work that are kind of unique to this win for you.

Trevor Kloeck (12:10.993)
So I think what's really kind of, well, not even unique about our approach is we really try and keep things compartmentalized, right? So the staff specialize in what they do. They have some ownership in what they do and they're part of a team. everybody, there's no hierarchy per se in the company other than the fact that everybody's part of it. So in terms of that work plan, it really kind of comes down to that mission.

on two levels and one of them which is really critical because we're a tech company. The first is make this product work the most efficiently possible, right? The second part of the work plan that is kind of unique to I'll call it a novel tech company like us, is embrace the fact that every time you turn on a machine you're innovating, right? And this is where it's always been a bit of a, we'll call it a,

fuzzy path when you're in a business like this because the process that we use at our manufacturing facility is the first of its kind anywhere. So talking about those ups and downs that we have in the business every single day represents a deviation from plan, right?

So the mission is around what that product needs to look like and how do we learn while we're making that product so that the next innovation happens and productivity goes up, cetera, et And so there's, we'll call it a continuous improvement that becomes completely part of the culture.

Gordon Sheppard (13:37.634)
continuous improvement all the time in a sense, right? So in the meantime, if you didn't have that central set of values and shared vision, you might be way off the rails from what you've described, especially because I'm gonna say first to market or first with your technology and how many deviations that could take. Plus when you've got genius folks around, it's not hard to noodle and think about all the cool things that you could be doing. But in the meantime, then that practical part, is there like a...

a strong onboarding process for new employees that's kind of in play there when we look at that timeline of the practical part or that ongoing continuous improvement to reinforce and reinforce on a day-to-day or week-to-week, month-to-month basis?

Trevor Kloeck (14:17.329)
Yeah, there is. So we were very careful in terms of how we hire and develop people, right? So it's, it's, and it's not just about them having the intelligence or the work ethic or the work experience to come into the job. It's about them having the right attitude, right? So we're very selective about that. And we've actually used our networks in novel ways. So one of our, partners is actually a deceptional instructor at the University of Alberta, right? So he's been very effective and I

identifying some just brilliant young people that are passionate, want to do good things and most importantly want to learn, then actually pulling them through the system that way. So what we try and do very informally is keep a very wide funnel so that we're identifying people that match our values and our culture that even if they're not part of our journey right now could be a part of our journey in the future.

Gordon Sheppard (15:11.105)
Love it. So that timeline, you you've got a very conscious recruiting kind of process for that said wide funnel in a sense. You've got sort of a, maybe a primary source of not talent, not the only source of talent, but you've got a way to plug into university level people where you're going to maybe match up those values quicker along the way. And then we could, you know, if we had time and I was in a full day workshop with you right now, I would take you through all those steps along the way of really interesting little moments. And I'll bet you there's all kinds of little coaching moments, reinforcement moments that happen along that.

very practical part of the way. The third step, so we just talked about the strategy and the work plan to pull off the strategy. You need people to pull off a win and funny enough, we're talking about people when we look at sort of what it is. So to build this workforce, which you're so proud of, who are the key players and what are their roles and how would you describe their attitudes in the situation? And maybe we'll start with sort of you and the senior leadership team in a sense to say, start there and then we can fan out to explore kind of the stakeholder group in a sense.

Trevor Kloeck (16:05.861)
Yeah, so the leadership group quite deliberately and this comes back to how Plantae was founded was built on two pillars, right? So the first was a really strong and very unique technical background, which is composed of myself and my business partner, Schute. And then beside us and working with us, we have an extremely strong business team, right? That all had executive experience both multinational, on a multinational level and national level with major

companies that can actually guide and coach us through this innovation.

path right so so part of that people plan is that is to bring all the pieces and elements together for business let's have a good idea let's have good technology right and then let's have people that actually know how to put these pieces together and with the tech company where that's really critical is the the herdy cat thing with science is a real deal right so you hear people talk about that all the time and it's it's a constant threat especially when you're dealing with something novel so you need to have a team right off the bat

at the executive level that sets the tone right and then from there you're able to kind of train develop and manage people based on their aptitudes and passions below that from a management standpoint.

Gordon Sheppard (17:22.293)
Love it. So you've got these sort of things in place already at the executive team. Again, you're backing up your technology and putting together either formal direct line or informal advisory in a sense to know that you're going to be successful. So you've got that part of your business taken care of. There's something about management training in here. There's something about humility or intentionality that's, you know, in the attitude of the senior leadership along with the other people. Does that make sense?

Trevor Kloeck (17:48.305)
100 % yeah and there's two things there right like is where we have to get people there's accountability that everybody needs to have right in order to operate a business we're not just a tech company we're manufacturing products right but there's also the whole process of actually getting people to take ownership of every step right

And so part of the training process and part of the development process is making sure that people get that, right? But that they also own that and they're doing it on their own, right? So we have safety meetings, for example, regularly, and it's a measure of success for the management team that staff are identifying, you know, things on their own and ways to improve, right? It's not about safety as much as much as is as it is that conversation about everybody saying, how do we make

this company better, right? And that's just a microcosm because if they're doing that there, they're doing that in everything. How do we make this process better? How do we make this more efficient, right? And then we can learn through those things. And with a young company like us, there's a ton of stuff to learn. This is not a straight line, right? This is a very zigzaggy line. And these staff need to be embodied into that so they all have a voice because I'll see things sometimes that we don't.

right just because they're doing it and it can be coming down to something as simple as just even how you shovel a new product into a machine could influence the final product and so if we don't have staff that are saying look I noticed this right we can't make it process improvements down the line when we're really running at scale.

Gordon Sheppard (19:24.525)
That is just remarkable. And what a C-suite dream in a sense, but that doesn't, you don't snap your fingers and that happens, right? That's a layering process right from the get-go, like you said, that you've been doing year in, year out, meeting in, meeting out to get those things to occur, to allow that ownership at every step to occur. And you can hear again, that's a clear line that if we drew a line to your values around the unapologetic, it's all kind of coming together. This is a really, this is a.

almost a business case study that we're seeing for best practice as we go along the way. What a pleasure to be jumping into step number four. So we talked about, again, the strategy, the work plan and the people. The fourth step I'd love to explore here is operationally. If you're going to have a great staff, you've got to have something operationally in place to kind of get that done. It could be around policies and procedures. It can be around giving them the right tools to do their jobs. It could be, you know, those types of things. Any highlights in that area that allow your workforce to be as strong as it is?

Trevor Kloeck (20:08.197)
Thank

Trevor Kloeck (20:11.727)
Yeah.

Trevor Kloeck (20:17.04)
Yeah.

Trevor Kloeck (20:23.247)
Well, you know what's interesting is that's been part of the growth process for us, right? So the interesting thing about the system is because it's new, and this is one of the coaching moments for the staff where we've really had to keep them motivated and engaged, is we didn't start the plant with policies and procedures because this was the first time it had ever happened, right? And so you don't know what your policy and procedure is until you start.

And you've got to start with intelligence and you've got to start with intent and you've got to start with the end goal in mind quite clearly. So what's interesting about the policies and procedures is their evolution as much as anything, especially in a company like this. What's been exciting and incredibly time consuming is this is a different journey than opening up a coffee shop.

We don't have a roadmap. We're building the roadmap, right? There's obviously other manufacturers out there, but we're dealing with a novel natural material, right? We're dealing with a novel manufacturing process. We're dealing with the first of its type applications in the field, right? So it's every single step in terms of policies and procedures is a learning experience. And so I would say it's less about having them than always making them and continuing to improve them.

And as we grow this company and we start to learn more about what the capabilities are and where products and opportunities come on there, this becomes part of the culture and the process for the entire business, right?

Gordon Sheppard (21:54.006)
Isn't that remarkable? so again, almost like the way you're scaling your revenues, you're scaling your workforce, you know, this sort of operational component about getting tools, policies, things in place is scaling along with you in a sense. Boy, years ago I was consulting with a client in a long project and one of the junior HR people had brought in a generic employee handbook that was essentially useless because they had to go, like it needed all this customized work based on

Trevor Kloeck (22:16.603)
Yeah. Yeah.

Gordon Sheppard (22:22.593)
the nature of that operation. And in the meantime, the senior leader had a disconnect there and thought, they had that covered. And then when we went and found out that it was generic and not applicable in this case to the Alberta jurisdictional laws and all the labor standards and all that kind of stuff, it was just like, it was a big eye opener. And thankfully we were able to get that remedied. But in your case, because you're dealing with multiple jurisdictions, you've got your own internal things, there's the safety part, like there's so many things that are going along and yet you have a pioneering spirit in the tone of your voice. This does not sound

overly daunting for you. sounds like something that you're sort of grappling with along as you grow. Is that fair?

Trevor Kloeck (22:56.965)
Yeah, you have to, right? It's the only way that it's gonna happen, right? And so if you think about the kind of company that we model ourselves after, it's companies like Amazon that started with a very small, humble vision in very confined settings, doing something that nobody thought was important, right? And so Amazon did not have a roadmap to build the company that they are.

Nobody done it before, right? There was maybe similar pieces out there and there was technology pieces out there, but the assembly and the culture and all those things that happened afterwards, they had to build on their own. Then they too, when you talk to companies like that are constantly figuring out how they're gonna go forward, right?

Gordon Sheppard (23:37.183)
Interesting. so this getting the right people with the right attitude being an essential ingredient, which you've just demonstrated along the whole conversation has been essential to that, including knowing that you're going to be growing and scaling and adapting essentially all along the way.

Trevor Kloeck (23:46.544)
Yeah.

Trevor Kloeck (23:51.045)
Yeah, exactly. You have no chance in the innovation game if you don't have the right culture internally.

Gordon Sheppard (23:57.058)
Fantastic. mean, what's so good is we're kind of breezing through these, but it's, we talked about the strategy, the work plan, the people operations. The final thing is, you know, you said you're super proud of the win of having a great work staff and culture. How do you measure the results? Do you measure it in profitability? Do you measure it in hours? I don't know, no time lost. Like what are the measurements data in a sense that you collect? And it could be qualitative as well to know that you're being successful to get this win.

Trevor Kloeck (24:25.423)
Yeah, I'd say it's both quantitative and qualitative. It's actually measured in the improvements in the products and the processes themselves, right?

So because we're so new and we're so young, it's less about the profit and more about getting to a model that's disruptive, right? So every single day when those guys go in there and turn on a plant or the sales team goes out there, something new is happening, right? So I want them to actually be measured on that and they are. So what will happen is let's say we have a little challenge with a product, we're off spec for what we thought we were gonna do.

The measure for us is the initiative and the effort in there to remedy that as fast as possible, right? Because if those pieces and that culture isn't in place, the profitability is never going to come, right? Producing huge quantities of product that nobody wants to buy or buys once and then hates you is not a success measure.

So you can be wildly profitable in the short term and then still blow up as a company because you're not tracking the right metrics. Right. So the metrics for us are all around, they actually producing a quality product? Are they engaged in producing a quality product? Are they getting productivity up in the plant? And are we developing new technologies creatively on all levels every single day? Right.

Gordon Sheppard (25:48.14)
Isn't that funny? didn't say dollars, number one, because you understand where you are at in your stage of growth because you know the dollars will come. But you're sort of being patient with that. But what you are able to measure is quality, productivity to a certain degree. How would you just say the general spirit is on the floor in a sense? Is there something there that sort of is a mood indicator? You know what I mean? Manage by walking around. Do you get a sense of that? Is there that type of indicator as well?

Trevor Kloeck (26:15.013)
Yeah, it's, we like to hear laughter out there, right? So if it's, we want them to enjoy being around each other. The management team needs to enjoy being around each other and they need to be engaged in discussions about what they're doing. And that's at all levels. It's not just the engineering staff, it's the operational staff, it's the maintenance staff, everybody needs to be engaged. So when we're looking at that process out there, that sense of purpose needs to be there at all times or we're in trouble.

and where it's not non-negotiable for a company like us and this is something that's often missed is that

Talking about innovation is really easy. Wanting innovation is really easy. Doing innovation is really hard, right? Because you have to fight for every customer because you're doing something new and it's never been done before, right? And you turn on a machine, even if you did it on a smaller scale, it doesn't mean they're going to spit it out, right? So every time that you're going to do something, you're going to have a step forward and a step back, right? You'll lose a bearing on a piece of machinery because it's the first time it's been set up that way, right?

So if you don't have that central passion and these guys engaged in what they're doing, right, you'll never get through it. Because there'll be days where they'll get to the plant and every single thing seems to go wrong, right?

Gordon Sheppard (27:35.52)
I love your experience. So I'm hearing that talking about innovation is fun, doing innovation is hard. My biggest theme that I'll take out of this whole conversation, I just can't thank you enough for your time. So many leaders I think are gonna hear the details of what you talked about and get a lot from that. But also I think it's the tone of your voice. I just think unapologetic is right in there and I can hear.

that you've earned that right. Cause we're talking about now what five, six years of whatever, baking it, doing it, and then you're in the day in and the day out. So I really appreciate the confidence that you bring to your answers as well. Any sort of closing thoughts on, you know, this win that you got and thing you kind of put a bow on it.

Trevor Kloeck (28:19.705)
Yeah, it's been dumb.

As hard as it's been to build a company through COVID, right, and all this uncertainty, it's still been a lot of fun. And the one thing that kind of really keeps us motivated, and it sounds aloof to say, because everybody talks about this from a green standpoint, but we know we're right. We know we're right about the products that we're making. know we're right about the direction of the market, where it's going. And we know that there's going to be hugs and punches along the way, right? So for us as a company,

Knowing that we're on mission to something that matters that solves real problems and that can be profitable is absolutely critical, right? so every time we get out there and we'll have often have kind of like circle back meetings as a management team with the staff as this matters, right? It's not just about the profitability of the business because we all want that that's a given It's about doesn't matter that you're here Is this something you're gonna live with at the end of the day and you're gonna be proud of right and that's how we get really

excited about this. We know we're right, but if you don't take those steps within that innovation culture to get there, it doesn't matter how right you are, right? You've seen that over and over again in the world.

Gordon Sheppard (29:30.807)
We know we're right, unapologetic, living it day in and day out. Trevor, thank you so much for being on the show.

Trevor Kloeck (29:37.029)
Happy to be here.